Introduction: By Steve Van Nattan-- This came to my attention recently, and I thought, "Well, this is just too nutty to go anywhere." I was wrong. As is almost always the case with new heresies, this thing is illusive.
I am going out on a limb to try to psyche it out. I ask the Lord to help me avoid blundering. If you can prove some of my facts are arranged wrong, I would appreciate E-Mail about it.
If you think The Great Dream notions are of God, don't bother writing. I am now a bigot on the matter. These people are loonie as a goonie.
Here are the sites where you need to go. Please check out this mess by following the links. I will drop only a fraction of the mental and devilish nut case material below the links for your interest:
Lordship salvation and "cloning" Arminianism
Jesus Christ says that receiving not His WORDS is the SAME THING as rejecting Him. I ask you AGAIN about the CREDIBILITY of Jesus Christ.....Did Jesus TELL THE TRUTH? Can Jesus BACK UP WHAT HE SAYS? Will Jesus PROVE TO BE FAITHFUL to those who TRUST and OBEY Him? Oh! How SICK and SAD it is that God should have to send me to tell you this! Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you THE TRUTH? (Gal. 4:16). likely so: for this IS...THE AGE OF APOSTASY. I myself, will continue to cling to the Jesus of The Red Letters, for I LOVE the Jesus WHO SAID all those things. I want THAT Jesus to be Lord of ALL. I want THAT Jesus to be King, and RULER over my life. The Jesus to Who DIED FOR YOU has ALSO told you HOW to escape from the SINFUL DRUDGERY of this present world. If you are UNWILLING to DO LIKE Jesus tells you; it is BECAUSE you don't believe Him OR trust Him, OR love HIM; and He said, If ye love Me, keep My commandments (John 14:15). http://users.multipro.com/tgd/anjesus.html
Signs and Wonders Lust
Mark.16:16 He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17. And these signs shall follow them that believe: In My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
No single statement by my LORD JESUS CHRIST has weighed upon me more heavily over the years than These signs SHALL follow them that believe. Jesus didn't say, "These signs shall follow the Apostles"; neither did He say "These signs shall pass away in a few hundred years". What shall we do? Shall our FAILURE to have these WONDERFUL MANIFESTATIONS of divine power in our lives mean nothing to us? Shall we be content to watch the sick and the oppressed file by, and wonder WHY we cannot do anything for them except to recommend doctors, diets, and counseling? And when the evil disease or the heartbreaking tragedy strikes in our own homes and families; shall we just EXCUSE OURSELVES? Shall our claim to be "men and women of faith" turn out to be a HOLLOW BOAST? Look: I DIDN'T WRITE THE BIBLE. It's NOT MY FAULT that Jesus said these things. Don't be angry at me, or try to "imagine" what my motives are if I seem to challenge the validity of your faith. I am, dear Reader, bringing myself to judgment about these things every day. HOWEVER, lest you think that there have been no SIGNS in my life either, let me set the record straight for you. There HAVE BEEN such signs in my life, BUT NOT MANY, and I have not been reliable to show the proof of God's power in my life for those who have looked to me. In NO WAY does my own failure to demonstrate the power of God in my life in a RELIABLE WAY prove that I am not supposed to have THAT POWER, and I am daily crying out to God to reveal my errors and grant me repentance even now. http://users.multipro.com/tgd/anjesus.html
They absolutely do NOT trust the King James Bible as the only Bible in English:
The following exposition on 1 Timothy 4:1-5 is written with the PRESUMPTION that the King James Version of The Bible is a RELIABLE translation of the Holy Scriptures from their original languages. However, by the word RELIABLE, I do not suggest that the KJV is perfectly accurate; for it is not. What protects the RELIABILITY of the KJV is that those who did the translating were fully convinced that THERE WAS SUCH A THING as an Inspired Written Record of Religious Truth AND that: their definition of INSPIRATION included PRESERVATION. In other words, they believed in a God Who INTENDED that CERTAIN and PARTICULAR words and phrases would be BOTH recorded and RELIABLY preserved until the End of the World, and in some way, on into Eternity. This writer agrees. The Bible also protects it's own doctrines.
The Divine Genius Who is the Composer and Preserver of The Christian Bible has designed it in such a way that occasional mistranslations of a word or phrase cannot obscure or change the IDEA that God INTENDED to be UNDERSTOOD by any HONEST reader. This preservation of DOCTRINE is accomplished by REITERATION and by ALLUSION. The Bible is REDUNDANT: it SAYS the SAME THINGS over and over again in DIFFERENT WAYS; therefore, an incorrect understanding of any particular word or phrase cannot be harmonized with the other Scriptures that address or touch on the same doctrine. The MASSIVENESS of The Bible protects it from purposeful meddling by SECTARIAN BUREAUCRATS. Most editions of the Christian Bible are more than 1000 pages in length. Direct addresses and allusions to the MOST IMPORTANT doctrines in The Bible are "sprinkled" throughout it's entirety. In order for any "translator" to COMPLETELY obscure or change a MAJOR doctrine of the Bible without being detected, he must undertake a task of such monumental proportions, that such an undertaking IS, HAS BEEN, and SHALL REMAIN completely beyond the limits of human intelligence.
Even though the world is now being flooded with an ever increasing host of confusing and contradictory "versions", The Bible remains IMPERVIOUS to any attempt at obscuring or changing what it actually says. Jesus Christ Himself quotes from the Old Testament AS IF He is EXPECTING His hearers to agree that THOSE PARTICULAR WORDS are the uncontestable Truth: He quotes from Moses and the Prophets without qualification or apology, in the presumption that what He quotes from is true and accurate. When Jesus said, The scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35), He declared The Bible to be entirely self-consistent. This writer agrees. The Christian Bible is SO consistent, that NO translation of it, no matter how biased or inadequate, is able to obscure what God intended for His Bible to SAY to the mind of any HONEST man.
The reason that I chose to use the King James Version only is because it is a VERY GOOD translation, and because it wins more TRUST from it's reader than any other. There are several other translations currently available that I could use in writing this book, and have no problem demonstrating and supporting the same Truth. In many cases, appeal to the public authority of other translations would make my job easier. But I believe it has been the will of God for me to stick to the King James Bible throughout, and to NOT make appeal to ANY OTHER popular translation, even if it is more "perfectly accurate" in it's rendition of particular words or phrases. I am convinced that the King James Version of the Bible is sufficiently accurate to reliably communicate all of God's revealed truth, and that it needs neither support nor clarification from any other source. If and when I find it necessary to supply corrected renderings or precise definitions for certain words; it is NOT because I cannot present my case from the English Text as it stands; but because I have to confront and refute dishonest and willfully ignorant minds that hunt and poke for loopholes, rat holes, and trivialities. This book is intended to condemn all who love to say, "Yea, Hath God said?" (Gen.3:1), whenever they are confronted by The Truth. http://users.multipro.com/tgd/2signs.html
They are Bible butchers:
1Tim.4:1 From the King James Version of The Holy Bible
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith; giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils; 2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3. Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
You will find that my translation isn't MUCH different from the KJV, and that the rest of God's Bible is in agreement with what I am going to tell you. Some of you will wish you could murder me after you read THIS. EVEN IF YOU DO, I'll have the LAST LAUGH on you. YOU CAN BET ON IT. For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain (Philippians 1:21).
The heretic butchered version:
1 Timothy 4:1-5 1. The Holy Spirit just now spoke these words to me. He says, that in the final stages of this present age, some of those who apostasize from the faith will do so by giving heed to influences which mislead them into embracing teachings that are sponsored by demons; 2. Being incapable of realizing their error. Under the pretense of being experts, they will say a lot of things that seem right, but are false. 3. The effect of these demonic teachings will be to discourage people from getting or staying married; and to make the attainment of health, and the attainment of true holiness into matters of what you eat and drink; insisting on total abstinence from things that God created to be received with gratitude by those who trust Him, and yield allegiance to the truth. 4. For everything God made is good, and nothing is unclean that may be received with true thankfulness to God, 5. For it is then sanctified both by God's word, and by a readiness to check with God first.
The 2 SIGNS OF THE APOSTASY are doctrines of devils about MARRIAGE and about DIET. This is the only place in the Bible where you will find a term like doctrines of devils, which means, "teachings emanating from demons". The reason I have supplied my own translation (or paraphrase, which it really is), is because 2 important facts are lost in the KJV rendering of 1 Timothy 4:1-5 due to the impossibility of translating the grammatical construction of this phrase without completely reorganizing the order of the words, and repeating some words again to maintain the context.
You will notice that in the KJV, the words and commanding are italicized; this is because there is nothing to correspond to them in the Greek Original. Take "and commanding" out of the KJV and read it again, and you will see what I mean. The 2 important facts are: 1.The doctrines are the SIGNS, not the people who teach them. These doctrines can be identified by their effects. 2.The demons are doing most of the TEACHING, not the people who are giving heed to them.
This is very important. A literal rendition of the bridge between verse 1 and verse 2 would read like this: teachings of demons. . . . . . . . . .through the stage acting of phony logic in the already seared to a scar tissue consciences of their's. What cannot be seen in the KJV is that DEMONS are doing most of the teaching. These are doctrines that are occurring directly to the minds of those who embrace them. These doctrines then appear to arise spontaneously in the minds of different people, each one thinking he has `concluded a truth' on his own. When he meets someone else who has reached the same conclusions, this is seen as CONFIRMATION of these doctrines. These ideas appear to be "logical". The word translated to liars in the KJV is PSEUDOLOGON: "pseudo-facts, or pseudo-reasonings": PSEUDO-LOGIC. It is this type of `reasoning your way into error' that is anticipated by the following scripture.... http://users.multipro.com/tgd/2signs.html
The Nutcase claim-- New York City and the United Nations are Mystery Babylon:
Over 4000 years have passed since the events in Genesis 11 took place, and today's Bible students are trying to find SOMETHING or SOME PLACE to call Babylon. This is because there are UNFULFILLED PROPHECIES in both Testaments concerning Babylon. If some sort of REVIVED BABYLON cannot be found, then Bible Prophecy will prove to be unreliable. Some have suggested that the original city would be rebuilt on the original site, and become the capitol of the earth again. This is VERY UNLIKELY, especially when you consider recent events in Iraq (the area of Ancient Babylon).
Even if a new city WERE built on the original site, it is hard to imagine how such a city could actually DOMINATE over cities like New York, Moscow, Rome, London, Brussels, or Beijing. Protestants like to say that REVIVED BABYLON is Rome: the city that sits on 7 HILLS. BUT, you have to "squint" at the prophecy to "see" Rome in it, because this Woman who is also a city definitely sits on mountains, NOT hills (Rev. 17:9). This City, according to the prophecy, reigneth over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18). The entire nation of Italy is a second rate political power in today's world, and EVEN IF the Vatican does have embassies in other countries like a sovereign state; Rome does not, and CANNOT give ORDERS to the other nations; for Rome does NOT have THE GUNS or THE MONEY to force compliance.
That this REVIVED BABYLON is an EMPIRE, and more than just a single city, CANNOT be denied, for it reigneth over the kings of the earth. And furthermore, this REVIVED BABYLON is shown to have the 3 primary components of EMPIRE: the ECONOMIC, the POLITICAL, and the RELIGIOUS. In Rev. 18:12-13 her merchandise includes slaves [Grk. SOMATON, the physical bodies of men], and souls [the moral and spiritual loyalties of men]. The ECONOMIC COMPONENT controls "the goods". The POLITICAL COMPONENT controls "the bodies" of men by making and enforcing the laws of public order. The RELIGIOUS COMPONENT controls "the souls" of men by dictating to the people what should be the proper objects of their loyalties.
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS, AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. This MYSTERY BABYLON cannot be found by looking at a map. The word that is translated to mystery is MUSTERION, which means "a secret, hidden from public view, and known only to a select group". This is a SECRET BABYLON. The word city in Revelation 17:18 is POLIS, which means [any organized social or political agency governed by a single policy]. Thus, in Hebrews 12:22, The Church is also called a "city". Revived Babylon is a SECRET KINGDOM; and is composed of 3 diverse, though cooperative elements. That the 3 components of this SECRET EMPIRE are DISTINCT from one another is plainly shown, in that the POLITICAL COMPONENT eventually turns against the RELIGIOUS COMPONENT (Rev. 17:16), and the ECONOMIC COMPONENT will lament the destruction of the RELIGIOUS COMPONENT (Rev. 17:11). Each of these diverse components of the SECRET EMPIRE may havetheir own separate headquarters. Likely candidates are easy to find. New York (the United Nations) may be the POLITICAL headquarters. Brussels (the Common Market) may be the ECONOMIC.headquarters. Rome is most likely the RELIGIOUS headquarters. Just WHO is WHAT or WHERE in these matters is not the subject I am inspired to address, and I am just GUESSING about these cities. I am NOT "guessing" about WHAT Mystery Babylon IS, though. I have just told you, and I am CORRECT. http://users.multipro.com/tgd/grtdrm1.html
They cannot interpret Scripture-- They trash those God exalts-- The following is a vicious attack on the plain meaning and stated blessing of God on a man. Is there a Identity reason? Are they Jew and Old Covenant haters possibly?:
EXAMPLE: In the book of 2 Kings, chapters 9 & 10, is the story of a man named Jehu. A prophet is sent from God to Jehu, ordering Jehu to wipe out the entire family of the evil King Ahab. Jehu not only does this, but also kills all of Ahab's friends, and all of the priests of Baal, the false God introduced into Israel by Jezebel, Ahab's wife. Jehu accomplishes all this in a relentless and merciless fury, and then becomes the King of Israel himself. Jehu faithfully accomplishes all of this "DIRTY WORK" for God; but in the end, Jehu is guilty of the SAME SINS as King Ahab (2 Kings 10:31). Read this story in 2 Kings chapters 9 & 10.
Jehu was a HIRELING. Jehu HEARD FROM GOD. Jehu OBEYED GOD in the thing he was sent to do. Jehu WAS PAID FOR HIS SERVICES by getting to be the king of Israel for 28 years. It's unlikely that Jehu fared any better than Ahab at the JUDGMENT OF GOD, for he committed THE SAME SINS. There are many such examples in the Bible that I could bring to your attention; but rather than belabor the point, I will presume that I have proven that God uses HIRELINGS to accomplish his will, as well as THE RIGHTEOUS. http://users.multipro.com/tgd/hire1.html
Here I make some observations:These people seem to avoid the Old Testament like a plague.
They attack everything and everyone but themselves.
They don't care if they have friends.
They conceal who they are. Talk about a SECRET SOCIETY!!
They attack the King James Bible, and they butcher it.
They interpret the Bible on the basis of their pre-suppositions, not on sound principles of reason.
They leave the reader with nowhere to go but to them-- They are guruistic.
This whole thing sounds like it is the by-product of a guru in Wisconsin named Best.
My conclusion:These are burned off Pentecostals who have gotten a belly full of Brownsville devil worship and the snake oil ministry of Oral Roberts and many other sorry scum of Charismania. Most of those I hear from, who fled Charismania, have gone on to start house churches or join narrow way fellowships. They are eager to find fellowship, while they are very cautious in doing so due to their previous experiences. The Great Dream gang is mad and raging on all in their path. They stay anonymous so that they don't have to be accountable for their mindless rage. They will have little fruit, and they don't care I gather. Beware of being drawn in by these and other raging exclusivists.
The following pathetic story of confusion is associated with The Great Dream busters scenario.
The following exchange was sent to me by David Casper. It is associated with The Great Dream, though I cannot tell you how yet. I shall be adding material as time goes by.
Two things are obvious in the following:
1. Wendy Howard Buester has here shown her true colors. She clears the air in telling of her tongues speaking over the past 30 years. This was hidden from many of us who are not Charismatic. It is very helpful to see where she is coming from. This would explain her passionate hate for Dr. Peter Ruckman. While Ruckman has things to answer for, Wendy has written things about Ruckman which are not true, accepting here say. I tried to get her to tone it down because trouble makers all over the world were using my Web material about Ruckman and especially hers to attack missionaries who had gone to Pensacola Bible Institute.
One missionary's whole program was trashed by a self-appointed church smasher in Rumania, and the man used my Web material and Wendy's. I at once dropped my Web pages on Ruckman to stop the damage to the Gospel, though I still have problems with Ruckman. Wendy attacked me by mail when I asked her to drop her material on Ruckman. I have avoided mentioning it until now, but I now feel that Wendy has been paranoid over her tongues speaking. Why? She senses that Texe Marrs or Ruckman will catch up with her eventually. She also hates the narrower position on the King James Bible issue.
Thus, with David Casper's help in the Lord, we have caught up with Wendy Howard Buester.
Does this mean she is no good to the Lord's people? Answer: NO! Wendy simply needs to take care of some things, just like Peter Ruckman, and like a lot of us. If she won't take care of issues in her life, then she needs to stop attacking others who represent a narrower position than hers. I have tried over the years to watch those who are narrower than I am. It is my desire to learn from them, not attack them. If they are right, I must prove them by the Word of God, and then it is I who must change. I invite Wendy to look into Gail Riplinger's book, "New Age Bible Versions. I have personally proven many of the details in Gail's book. Fail is very narrow, and I like being in company with those who take the narrowest positions. There is real comfort in knowing one is carving out a small acre for Christ in the DMZ.
2. Here is an exchange between Wendy and others which is laced with demon possession in tongues speaking, and those involved seem to think this is the way to victory. This is a sort of sadomasochistic Charismatic hybrid like I have never seen before. I fear this could be the next fad-- I.E. Get demonized and in the end you will have victory. I want you readers to send me anything you can on this. I feel we are on the leading edge of a new twist in doctrines of devils and the AOG, Brownsville, and Charismania in general. Have you seen signs of Charismatics KNOWINGLY perservering through demonic possession and claiming it was God's Holy Spirit's method of bringing them to victory? Send your observations by E-Mail please.
This is the letter from Dean Flanders:Dear everyone,
I got saved in a Pentecostal Church in 1970. They all spoke in tongues all the time. I couldn't speak in tongues. I was insecure about it. For months, I made trip after trip to the front of the church at the end of every meeting: and there, I was subjected to all that you who have been in Pentecostal Churches know about. I was becoming dismayed. The people who were praying for me were becoming tired and bored. I began to fellowship with the fear that God hadn't received me, and that I was still damned.
FINALLY - there came a night, and there I was again, back up at the front, kneeling over the prayer rail. After wearing out several people, I was left there with the chief elder and his wife -no one else was even left in the building. I awoke momentarily from the near hysteria of my own prayer to realize that the elder had my left arm, and the elder's wife had my right arm. They were almost engaged in a tug of war over me and the elder was shouting, "Just hold on, Dean, just hold on!" The wife was shouting, "Just let go, Dean, just let go!"
I had always thought and hoped that receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost would be a wonderful, transporting experience, and I was unwilling to accept anything less: but in that moment I felt like a lunatic among lunatics, and all I wanted was for THIS TO END.
So, in my heart (or under my breath) I said to God, "Please just let me speak in tongues, so that I can get out of this!" I knew that until I spoke in tongues that these people would never leave me alone, and that I would be endlessly confronted with my shortcomings (in my church, your salvation was suspect if you couldn't speak in tongues). Some of you know what I mean - you've been there.
So, with a shear act of will, I said some little thing like sha-la-dora-mona or some such. The elder and his wife looked like they had just been let out of jail, and after congratulating God and me and themselves profusely, they left, and I was alone.
What a disappointment. But I have been able to speak in tongues freely and articulately, almost at will, ever since.
I was dismayed that the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, about which I had heard so much, was only this. BIG DEAL, I thought....what a bummer....I wonder how many other high sounding things in this faith will finally be discovered to be disappointing.
But at least, the social pressure was off me, and I was now received as a "real Christian" by the church. 6 months passed. During that time, I spoke in tongues but was constantly troubled by the lack of "feelings" when I did it. I "felt" almost nothing. I often wondered if I wasn't just making it up and babbling. But I sounded like all the rest, so I took some consolation in that. In my really quiet moments, the insecurity raged.
So...as I said, 6 months passed. I was visiting my Jewish mother, and trying to convince her that I really found God and salvation. She said (and I paraphrase), "That's good, Dean, that's good; but you have always been a fanatic about whatever you were into, and this too, will pass" - and she left the room. Disheartened, and even frightened, I cried out to God, "WHY CAN'T I BE CONVINCING?" (these are the exact words - I remember clearly)
In a despairing gesture, I flipped open my Bible, which was in my lap as I sat in the green chair in my mom's living room. My eyes fell upon the 24th Psalm, and I began to read, trying to comfort myself or take refuge in it...until....I got to this......
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.
AT THAT MOMENT - I had a vision. I was transported upwards, while the Bible expanded to cover the world below me. The black lettering of the above verses became great black holes below me on the white landscape of the page, and then I saw flames of fire licking up out of the holes.
And then, I felt like warm oil was poured on my head, a lot of it, and it ran down around my neck and shoulders, and down my legs to my feet. When it hit my feet, I felt like a powerful stream of carbonated water rushed back up through me, from my feet, through my legs, through my chest and arms, and back out the top of my head.
I felt, suddenly, CLEAN.
I felt........innocent........and safe............
AND THEN...I was lifted even higher upwards, and I felt 2 arms embrace me from the back, and I spent a moment sitting in someone's lap - feeling just like a comforted baby. I was overwhelmed with joy, like the waters cover the sea. I did not speak in tongues during or immediately after any of this.
Then with a woosh! I was rocketed back down into the chair, just as my mother re-emerged from the hallway into the family room. I suspect that about 5 minutes had passed. But I was a new boy. No longer the wilting, intimidated and insecure child, I was now as bold as a lion as I continued my testimony to my conversion. Within seconds, my mother broke out into sobs and fled the room.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
From that moment on, I had the power to make a difference with my preaching - and went on from there to start several ministries, which have had quite an impact on many people......even until this day.
BUT BACK TO "tongues and terror, and believing God's Word":
In the midst of my public success as a young hot-shot preacher boy, I began to be a personal failure, for reasons which are clearly outlined in THE GREAT DREAM. I forsook clinging to the plain language of my Bible in order to advance my "preacher's career". (I MUST be the only one that has ever done this :o))
At the end of my compromise, I lost all zeal for the faith, quit my position, and went back to live with my parents. There, I underwent an oppressive gloom, as it seemed that my 4 years in "the ministry" had been the wasting of my youth. I couldn't get a decent job....and to my parents, money WAS the measure of a man's worth. I didn't have a girl friend. I didn't have any friends left at all. I spent long days in the hot sun walking FOR MILES from place to place, trying in vain to get a job. I had no car and I had no money. At the end of those days, I walked all the way back home to face my parents and admit with great shame that I had FAILED AGAIN.
One day, I am collapsed in gloom on a bus bench, about 6 miles from home (yes, I walked all those 6 miles) in the hot sun. I am near suicidal, and hating God. Looking up, I see a sign next to a golf course, that says "Church" with an arrow pointing down a street. I decided I would go and see "the church people" to find out if they could diagnose me or help me. I found out that "the church" was a palatial home right across the street from the golf course. Inside, was the Reverend Howard Coffee of the AoG, and his family, and some of his "elders". I told them all about my problems and my dismay and my fears. They assured me that they could help me, but that I should begin to attend regularly. With a new hope, I walked all the way home, to learn that a decent job had come through: but by that time, THE ISSUES OF MY HEART had become all consuming, and the advent of "a job" did not answer to them. But after a few meetings, when my gloom had not lifted, I cried and complained to them, "HELP ME, I'M SINKING!!!"
So.......we began to have "counseling sessions": there was I....sitting on a chair, surrounded by "elders" asking me questions and praying for me. A few weeks and many such "sessions" passed: but I was neither relieved nor comforted, and I told them so. SO... they began to interrogate me closely about every issue and matter of my life, until they came across my "speaking in tongues" story (you just read what I told them above). Aha! they knew it NOW!
They diagnosed the problem: Because I had spoken in tongues by an act of will instead of being compelled by the Holy Ghost, I was POSSESSED WITH A DEMON THAT SPOKE IN TONGUES, and who tormented me otherwise.
This diagnosis was followed by several "demon casting sessions", but neither they, nor I, were satisfied with the outcome of these sessions. They began to blame me for clinging to the demon. I began to live in hell day and night. I was demon possessed, damned, a loser, and it was all my fault. I began to lose weight rapidly as the weeks dragged on. My hair fell out. My skin turned grayish. I was coughing up blood. I couldn't sleep, but only swoon from exhaustion. All the while, I was attending meetings and going to these counseling and demon casting sessions with all the "respected elders".
FINALLY, during one of these "sessions", I was told that reason why they couldn't "cast it out" was because I was "protecting the demon" by the exercise of restraint, and that I should just be totally passive, and do or say whatever moved me. The first thing that flowed into my mind was profanity, which for shame I would not repeat. Then, some kind of nonsense about buffaloes and cookies, which I repeated. They fastened on that and determined that I was possessed by a demon that called itself "buffalo", and began to denounce and reject it. But still, nothing happened. They warned me again, that if I didn't "let go", that I would never be delivered. In fright and desperation, I became completely submissive to "whatever would come".
Immediately I felt a feeling like electricity run up from my fingers through my arms. My arms and hands became paralyzed and contorted into a grotesque posture; then, the paralysis overtook my whole body, and I fell off the chair onto the floor, then I began o screech and babble aloud in what was OBVIOUSLY a blasphemous imitation of the gift of tongues. I could hear myself, and I wasn't "praying": I was blaspheming AND I KNEW IT.
The "reverend" and the elders were by this time leaping about and doing their own bit of shrieking. This pandemonium continued: me laying on the floor all twisted up with my hands twisted into hooks and screeching in what sounded like foreign profanity, while they pronounced, denounced, quoted, threatened, and danced....UNTIL..............
.......I just got sick of it. I refused the evil thing that had a hold of me and it immediately just left. They, of course, wanted to claim "the victory", but I denied them that. I was taken into another room by one of the chief women, who continued to interrogate me. As I tried to explain myself, she continually rebuked "the demon" who was speaking through me. I finally asked her whether or not "Dean" was ever getting a word in while this demon controlled me. She said............NO.
I screamed aloud in dismay and ran from the room. I was met by the rest of the "elders" in the next room, and there then ensued a chase, with me screaming "I can't take this anymore" and trying to find an unblocked door. They were close behind and dashing here and there and blocking the exits while they screamed back and made all their pronouncements "in the name of Jesus". Finally, I got through a door, and froze on the step. The Reverend
Coffee stood inside the door looking at me. I said, "I have to leave, I just can't take it anymore. Can't you see that I am DYING HERE?"
He said "You go ahead and leave, but you will spend the rest your life eating dry straw". That was 1974.
I still speak in tongues. Luke 11:9-13
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
So.....what's it going to be for YOU dear Friends? will you believe the Word of God, or will you let the doubt and fear of cowardice and faithlessness rule your life? I have "paid the bill", in suffering and conflict and prayer and struggle for my faith....and this is not the only such story I can tell.
YOU, (whoever you are) who think you can come along and quote a little scripture out of context to shake me from this confidence are living in a DREAM WORLD.
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I am really tired of being challenged about such matters by people who have never "paid the bill" for the convictions they so glibly espouse. Take your untested and untried hypotheses and go practice making speeches in front of a mirror, and see if you can first convince yourself before you decide to use up any more of the priceless minutes of my life.
Gal 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
Brother Dean Flanders, Servant of Jesus Christ
Here is Wendy Howard Buester's response.
Please note that she gave Dean NO rebuke for equating demon possession in the process of Christian victory. This is amazing from a lady who has dealt with demonic things in the highest places of Ecumenical territory etc.Dear Dean,
That is some story! All I can say is that the whole emphasis on tongues is just bizarre! Jesus Christ is the centre of my life, and tongues are just a small, minor factor. I am a fundamental Christian who has been saved for 42 years, I have spoken in tongues for thirty years, and it is just a small part of my life. I am not Pentecostal or Charismatic, and do not accept either of these movements or their doctrines as they stand today. The Scriptures, the precious Presence of Christ Jesus, and the wonderful Life He fills me with is what thrills my soul. On our Website are the first issues of "Beauty for Ashes", a handbook on the Holy Spirit's working in our lives, three in number, fourth coming up soon. Maybe you would take time to read these, and get back to me and we could discuss the contents?
Regards in Christ our Saviour,
Wendy Howard, editor of Despatch.
Now, here is an exchange between two other people. One, at least, is into The Great Dream cult.
You will have some questions as to what is happening here after you read, but I trust you can start to get the bigger picture of the subtle guruism and subliminal seduction of victims into this cynical new Charismatic hybrid.
Subject: Re: the great dream
thanks for the note. i was raised as a baptist because that is what my mother's mother was. i am presently, and have been for many years, undenominational. i have been turned off by the machinery of churches that look for no more than a verbal decision and measure success by a "body" count every sunday. i am currently not paying dues at any club. i have opted to independently study scripture to form my thoughts and to be guided by the spirit. i have a very tough time spiritually and in public life sometimes as i feel satan flogs me mightily when i leave an opening. every time i feel i am closing in on spiritual success, it seem the pressure is increased. i return to the word and always find renewed strength and occasionally find a jewel such as THE DREAM to aid me in my learning and defense. i feel that i can learn and reinforce many of my thoughts with the scripture references. is this available in printed form? i have a printer but, don't know how to use it very well. sometimes it cuts off part of what i am trying to copy. i spent about six hours yesterday studying on the computer and my eyes are sore. i am going to try again in a little while. sometimes when i start studying i JUST can't STOP.
Subject: Re: the great dream
I'm sure that Dean has already answered you, but I wanted to respond as well. We are always looking for the fellowship of the brethren, and there aren't many, as you can probably guess, that receive THE GREAT DREAM as warmly as you have. We would like to get to know you. I hope that you will write again and tell us a little about yourself.
Subject: the great dream
downloaded your book. have read and studied the first four chapters. great stuff. thanks for your effort in this area. i have been turned off in the past when reading about "end times". may the lord bless you and your ministry abundantly.
I realize this has been a somewhat confusing presentation. This is partly because I have used the actual E-Mail exchanges which are somewhat cryptic. Also, the content is a bit scatter brained. But, I trust you can see how these people have become cynical and self-destructive. They have not peace, and they have little or no joy. This is arrogant religion, and it follows old forms we have seen in the last 2000 years of the devil's attack on the Lord's church and humanity in general. The thing that is starting is that it is now hatching new in Charismania.
A spirit of despair has become institutionalized in Pentecostalism. This is no doubt due to the horrible ugly picture presented by the mocking and laughing at the Holy Ghost by Kenneth Copeland and Rodney Howard Browne. Our pages on the Charismatic confusion tell stories of people having orgasms at the front of the church house on the floor and vomiting of ectoplasm, and worse.
Pentecostals who see this, and who love the Lord, have become very depressed. Now, this depression has gone on to be used by Satan to convince these who flee the Third Wave that they are doomed to destructive religion. They hole up in their despair, and they adopt it as a neo-monastic discipline for finding holiness and spiritual power. I should think a godly saint would find it depressing just to have to read about this. Now, imagine what it is like to be caught up in a formalized doctrine of self-destruction. This is so sad.
Here are some counter observations:Historically, I call your memory to Haiti. Here, pagan / Roman Catholics go into the forests every year to roll in mud, be pounded by water falls, and generally afflict themselves in all manner of physical pain.
In India, Satan has convinced many thousands of alleged "holy men" that self-inflicted pain and discomfort will raise them closer to the Brahman consciousness and shorten their reincarnation cycles. All manner of pain and deprivation is suffered to cancel out the load of Karma they imagine they have built up.
During the Dark Ages, while the vilest forms of Roman Catholic superstition and idiocy prevailed, monasteries and convents fairly bulged full of poor souls who entered those devil holes in order to make all manner of self-imposed pain so that they could get a little sense of holiness. They failed, but they kept at it and killed themselves with pain in the effort.
These three example are only a small fraction of the total pain doctrine which Satan has foisted on humanity. The Aztecs killed thousands of young men to appease the gods. Even Israel, in rank backsliding, threw their babies into the fires of Mullock to gain holy power. African endured the most heinous pain and terror from devils in order to please Satan and their ancestors. Catholics today all over the world crawl on bloodied knees up to stone statues of dead and mythical saints. The prophets of Baal cut themselves to gain access to Baal's graces.
So, now, in these last days, Pentecostals and Charismatics are now hatching a new form of this sadomasochistic perversion of Christian zeal. This is the old device of Lucifer being re-packaged in our day.
What does the Bible teach us?You will recall that when Job was tested by Satan, at God's permission, Job became depressed and cynical. God did not commend Job for his self-destructive thoughts. God rebuked Job for this. Job was not restored until he got back his confidence and joy.
Please read about the demoniac of Gaderra:
Luke 8:26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.
27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
I note that the man had a head knowledge of Jesus and knew how to pray to Him.
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
34 When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.
35 Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
In the story of Dean's alleged journey to tongues power, he shared much with the demoniac in this story. This than indicates that Dean was, and still is, demon possessed. If Dean were delivered and empowered by the Holy Ghost, he would be in his right mind, not cynical and self-destructive, AND looking forward to more of the same.
36 They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.
37 Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again.
38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying,
39 Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
Dean is confrontational and talks of pain and trouble as has destiny in life. He threatens the reader to be ready to be demon possessed if the reader wants spiritual power. Those who are under the power of the Holy Spirit are publishing Good News everywhere, now preaching pain and terror.
Now, the same text in Mark:
Mark 5:1 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
Verse 4-5 sound so much like Dean's journey to alleged power and tongues speaking authority.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Dean claims to be born again and a worshipper of Jesus Christ. So, the devils can worship Jesus, but do so in terror, just like Dean tells us he did in the account above. Dean is probably NOT born again. Dean is in the lap of Satan, and he needs to repent of his sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit and the salvation of Jesus Christ, which he makes into a mockery of pain and rage. Dean is in trouble!
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
The Assembly of God leaders who chased Dean around the church house and screamed and raged at the devils in Dean showed that their sterile and pagan forms and rituals were only mere acts in the flesh. Dean needs to go to Jesus Christ and surrender the tongues devils and ask Jesus to cleanse him and save him from his sins.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
Dean speaks of fear, fear, and more fear. God hath not given us a spirit of fear, but of love, and of power, and of a sound mind. This is Paul's formula for victory. Dean's smug ending is arrogant, and he leave off his discussion by making it clear he intends to stay in the suffering mode of life so that he can keep speaking in tongues. Hell and death are the destination of such arrogance.
16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
Dean will soon be asking Jesus Christ to go away and leave him alone unless Dean repents.
18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
19 Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.
Dean NEVER mentions going to Jesus for His comfort and compassion. This is 180 degrees off from Bible Christianity.
20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.
Dean publishes horror, devil possession, terror, fear, arrogance, tough talk, and worse. Dean does not know what the Good News is. He offers no hope for the reader nor for himself. This is so sad.
Worst of all, in her reply above, Wendy Buester gave Dean no comfort, and she even seemed to accept Dean's tale as a alternative Christian experience by her total lack of rebuke and caution toward Dean. All she could muster was a vague hint that she could speak in tongues and be serene indefinitely. Don't count on it Wendy.
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Proverbs 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Are you a Charismatic who has been repulsed by the chaotic circus of Charismania? Are you getting cynical about the Christian life? Maybe, like some of these we have noted, you simply refuse to cast off the last devil-- Tongues Speaking. Will you come 100% clean with Jesus Christ and be satisfied with FAITH? Will you give up ALL self-gratifying experience doctrines, especially tongues speaking? This may well be the last devil of all Charismatics and Pentecostals. This devil must GO.
This is not to imply that Jesus Christ will not give you an experience base in your life, but you must be willing to take the ultimate experience and leave it at that-- peace that passeth understanding. Comfort. Rest in Christ. If you insist on going down front at the church house, or even into you closet, and producing tongues speaking, then you may well spend the rest of your life half whipped and defeated. Your self-will simply prevents your having the peace and comfort that Jesus gives.
A last thought about Wendy Buester. She has done a a real service in ferreting out some very sinister Satanic activity in high places among principalities and powers. For this we are truly grateful, and we would not discourage this ministry. We pray that she will finally set aside the devilish clinging to tongues speaking, a gift which was terminated, as Paul prophecied in I Corinthians 13:8. We pray that she might walk 100% by faith, trusting the King James Bible and not experience.
We pray that Dean will repent of his lust for self-will and self-destruction-- that he might be found in Christ, not having Dean's righteousness, which is a Satanic counterfeit.
Let us also pray for ourselves that we not be smug about our advantage in laying aside the beggarly 1900 year elements of tongues speaking. What we may not see is that Satan has a cookie for us all, and he watches for our every weakness. None of us may assume we have arrived, for we all have work to do in our personal walk with our Lord.
A SECULAR NEW DREAM OF A BETTER WORLD BY MASS CONSENSUS
I believe Christendom's dreamers ride piggy back on this secular view