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EDITOR:
Steve Van Nattan

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RICK JOYNER

His Vision is used by Him To Justify War
BY Charismania AGAINST the rest of us.

 

This man is deadly.  

He claims a vision, and in Charismania that demands respect higher than the Word of God itself.  Thus, if this war, civil war against the rest of Christendom, is followed through by the groupies at Brownsville and Toronto, and around Charismania, we are in for some hard times.

"We" being everyone on the narrow way, which they hate with a passion.  Here, you find his vision, some other blabber in regard to interpretation, and some criticism of him by those not so narrow, but frightened of him.  I put all I could find up rather than link to him because some of these flakes are now editing or withdrawing their pages to cover their sins.

Thus....

 

REVIEW OF RICK JOYNER'S MURDEROUS BOOK  "The Final Quest"

RICK JOYNER'S VISION OF THE CIVIL WAR

RICK JOYNER'S VISION OF THE HARVEST

WHY I OPPOSE THE 'CIVIL WAR'  by Andrew Strom, New Zealand

QUOTES TAKEN FROM SANDY S_________'S PAGE OF QUOTES RICK JOYNER

 

 

RICK JOYNER'S VISION OF THE CIVIL WAR

War and Glory

by Rick Joyner

From the Morning Star Journal Vol 4, nr. 2 Spring 1994

Copyright Morning Star Publications , 16000 Lancaster Hwy., Charlotte, NC 28277

In August of 1993, I had a vision of the church. It was represented as an island in the middle of a sea. There were many different types of buildings all over this island, each of which I understood to represent a different denomination or movement.  These buildings seemed to clash with each other architecturally as there were very old ones next to very modern ones. There was a war going on between many of the buildings, and most of them looked like bombed out shells. People were still living in the buildings, but most were starving and wounded.

The Controlling Spirits

There were two dark spirits over the island directing this war. One was named Jealousy and the other one Fear. They congratulated each other every time one of the buildings suffered damage, or people were wounded.

I then saw two powerful and frightening spirits rising over the sea. These became storms. One was named Rage and the other Lawlessness. They were stirring up the sea and causing great waves to crash onto the island. Soon these storms became so large that they seemed even more threatening to the island than the war.

I felt that the people in the city had to be warned about these storms, and several apparent watchmen were trying to do this, but no one would listen to them. The people only debated and argued about whether the watchmen should be trusted. This was remarkable because anyone who just looked up could see the storms for themselves.

These wars had left so many people wounded that the hospitals were fast becoming the largest buildings on the island. The hospitals were movements or denominations that had given themselves to healing the wounded. As these grew, the other warring factions had no respect for them as being a place where even their own wounded were being cared for, but were instead more resolved to destroy them than the other buildings.

As the war continued, even those who were not badly wounded had the appearance of phantoms, or they became grotesquely deformed from the starvation and disease. Anytime a building received a supply of food, which would attract people, it would become a target. I could not comprehend how even a war could be so cruel-and this was the church!

In the midst of the battle, men were still trying to add to their buildings, or start new ones, but it was futile. Whenever one building would start to rise a little higher than the others, or any time a new building was started, it would become the main target of all of the other buildings, and it would quickly be reduced to rubble.

I was then shown many powerful leaders who were conducting this war. All of them had the same word on their forehead: "Treachery." I was surprised that anyone would follow someone with that written on them, but they did. I was reminded of Il Corinthians 11:20, "For you bear with anyone if he enslaves you, if he devours you, if he takes advantage of you, if he exalts himself, if he hits you in the face."

 

A Remnant

However, there were people who appeared as lights in almost every building. These lights refused to take part in the fighting, but spent their time trying to repair the buildings, or nurse the wounded. Even though it was impossible to keep up with the damage or the wounded, they did not stop trying.

It was also apparent that each of these lights had the power to heal wounds, and that power was increasing as they worked.  Those who were healed became lights just like those who healed them. It was obvious that these individuals who were committed to healing the wounded were now able to do more than the hospitals because of the ruthlessness of the attacks on the hospitals. Understanding this, the hospitals dispersed their people as "healing teams" which spread out across the island and moved into many of the other buildings.

There were also many small camps around the perimeter of the island. Some of these were involved in the war between the buildings, and seemed intent on trying to destroy all of the buildings so that they could bring the people to their camps. The leaders of these camps had the same word "Treachery" written on their foreheads.

There were a few of these camps which were not involved in the war, and they too appeared as lights. These were also growing in authority, but it was a different authority than the healing powers that the others had. They had authority over events. They were praying to stop small battles, and to keep small storms away, and it was happening as they prayed.

The two spirits over the city and the two storms became very intimidated by these small camps. I felt that these intercessory groups were actually close to having the authority to stop the major battles and big storms, which were obviously the source of agitation of these large spirits.

 

The Tragedy

There were multitudes of boats and ships all around the island that were waiting to enter the city as soon as the fighting stopped. Many of these boats were full of refugees from other wars, and many were wounded. There were also ships bearing kings, presidents and those who appeared wealthy and prosperous. These were all afraid of the storms, but they could not enter the city because of the fighting. Their groans and screams were so loud I was surprised that no one in the city could hear them; no one even seemed aware that they were out there.

 

In His Wisdom

Then I saw the Lord standing and watching. He was so glorious that I wondered why I had not seen Him before, or why everyone in the city did not stop to worship Him. To my amazement, no one was able to see Him. I then looked into the eyes of some of the people, and they were all so "bloodshot" that I was surprised that they could see anything.

I then wondered why the Lord did not stop the fighting, and seemed content to just watch. As if He had understood my thoughts, He turned and said to me, "This is My church. These were the houses men tried to build for Me. I knocked on the door of each one, but they would not open to Me. l would have brought peace because I will only dwell in the city of peace."

Then He turned and indicated the people in the ships, saying: "If I allowed all of these people to come to the city now they would just be used in the war. When their cries become louder than the war, I will build a place for them."

Then He looked at me with great earnestness and said, "I allowed this to happen so that it would never happen again!" It is hard to convey the power of this statement, but it imparted to me a deep understanding that He allowed this conflict to continue out of profound wisdom. He then said, "Until you understand this you cannot understand what I am about to do.

When the cries of those in the boats became louder than the conflict in the city, the Lord gave a command and the sea was released. Great tidal waves arose and began to sweep across the island until they covered the buildings. The spirits that were storms joined the spirits over the island, and they all grew to almost double their previous size. Then the island completely disappeared under the darkness of the spirits and the raging sea.

The Lord did not move as this was happening. I knew that my only protection was to stand as close to Him as possible. I could not see anything but Him during this great storm. As I looked at His face I could see both hurt and resolve.

 

The House Of The Lord Is Built

Slowly, the storms died down and the tides receded. The individuals who were the lights in the buildings emerged and remained standing where the buildings had once been. Then the Lord, who had been on the edge of the island, moved to the center and said, "Now I will build My house."

All of those who were lights started turning toward the Lord. As they turned, they became even brighter, and each group was changed into a living pillar right where they stood. Soon it became obvious that these pillars were the framework of a building which would almost cover the entire island.

The pillars were different colors, shapes, nd sizes. It was hard to understand how all of these, being so different, would work as a single framework. However, the Lord seemed very pleased with each one, and they did eventually all fit together.

 

The People Come

Then the ships and boats all started landing on the island. There were multitudes of people. Each ship or boat was from a different country or race of people. Soon I began to think that, even as large as it was, there were too many people for the building. Then the Lord looked at me and said very sternly, "We will build as many rooms as we need-no one will be turned away."

This was said so sternly that I resolved to never again consider turning people away as an option. I also pondered how the biggest problem before was how to get people to come to the buildings. Now the big problem was what to do with all of the people.

 

The Cemetery

When each ship arrived, the people on it were led straight to the Lord. He looked into the eyes of each one and said, "If you trust Me, you will die for Me." When one said, "I will die for You," He immediately thrust His sword right through his heart.  This caused very real pain. To those who tried to avoid the sword, it was obviously even more painful. To those who relaxed, it did not seem to hurt as much.

They were then taken to a cemetery with the words "Obscurity" over the gate. I felt compelled to follow them. Those who had been stabbed were checked to see that they were really dead before they were buried. Some clung to life for a long time, and were laid off to one side. Quickly, those who were buried began to arise as lights just like those who had survived the storm. I noticed that they were not staying in their tombs the same length of time. Some of them arose before those who were clinging to life were even buried.

When I first looked at this cemetery, it looked like a dreadful place, and I did not think that it fit at all on this now glorious island. As I left the cemetery, I turned to look back at it, and it looked beautiful. I could not figure out what was different, when one of the workers said to me knowingly, "The cemetery has not changed-you have."

I then looked at the building and it was even more glorious than I had remembered. I then looked at the island and felt the same thing-it had become much more beautiful I remembered the Scripture, "Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His godly ones" (Psalm 116:15). The worker, who was still looking at me, then said, "You have not died yet, but were changed just by being close to those who have. When you die you will see even more glory."

Those who were emerging as lights from the cemetery were each being led to their own place in the building, which would have their name on it. Some joined the walls, others joined the pillars, some became windows or doors. They remained people even after they became a part of the building.

 

The Test

I returned to the Lord's side. Standing in His presence was so wonderful I could not imagine why anyone would not be willing to die for Him, but many of the people coming from the ships did refuse. These would all back away from Him at the request. Many of these went back to the ships, some of which left and some of which remained in the harbor.

A few of the people who refused to die stayed on the island and were allowed to walk about freely, and even enter the House of the Lord. They seemed to love and bask in the glory of it all. Many of these began to shine with a glory too, but they never had the glory within themselves-they only reflected what was coming from the others.

As I was thinking that it was not right for these to be allowed to stay, the Lord said to me, "My patience will win many of these, but even those that never give me their lives, I love and am pleased to let them enjoy My glory. Never turn away those who love My glory." These really did enjoy the house, and enjoyed the presence of the Lord that radiated from the house, but they seemed timid, and retreated when the Lord Himself came close to them.

I then watched as those who had refused to die for the Lord began to act as if His house were their own, and had been built for them. I wanted to be angry at their great presumption, but I could not feel anger even though I wanted to. I then understood that it was because I was standing so close to the Lord that I could not be mad. This forced me to make the decision to stay close to Him or move away so that I could be angry.

I was surprised that this was a difficult decision, that I would even consider wanting to move away from the Lord, but it honestly was. Out of fear at what was arising within me, I stepped closer to the Lord. He immediately reached out and grabbed me as if I was about to fall off of a cliff. As I looked behind me I was astonished to find that I had been on the very edge of one, and had I taken that step away from the Lord to feel the anger, I would have stepped off of it.

He then said to me, "In this house I can tolerate presumption more than that anger. That anger would start the war again." I was then overwhelmed with the knowledge that I had not yet made the decision to die for Him either, and that I too had been presumptuously feeling possessive of both the house and the Lord. When I saw this great evil in my own heart I was appalled and immediately begged the Lord to destroy my evil heart with His sword.

 

Resurrection Life

When the Lord pierced My heart, I was surprised to feel so little pain when it seemed to have been so hard on others. He then said, "Those who request death die easier." I remembered His statement in Matthew 21:44: "And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whoever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."

I did not remember being carried to the cemetery, but just as if no time at all had passed, I was emerging from it again. Now the glory of every thing I saw was unspeakable. I looked at a rock and loved it. I looked at trees, the sky and clouds, and could not believe how wonderful they were. A sparrow seemed more glorious than any bird I had ever seen. I wondered at the great treasure that this little bird was, and why I had not appreciated him like this before.

I then looked at the presumptuous people. Not only did I feel no temptation to be angry, I loved them so much I would have let each one pierce my heart again if it would help them. I then began to think of how blessed I was to be able to meet them and be with them. Now I actually wanted them to stay and could not even comprehend how I was ever tempted to be angry at them-they were much greater treasures than the sparrow!

Then the Lord stood next to me. Though I did not think it was possible, He was much more glorious than before, and I was able to ear it. He said, "This is why the death of My people is so precious to Me. Those who seek to save their life always lose it, but lose who lose their life for My sake find true life. Now you know true life because you know love."

I then looked at the house and all of those who composed it. Everything and every one that I looked at seemed to stir up this eat feeling of love that was more wonderful than anything I had ever felt before. I wanted to go look at or talk to each one, but I did not want to leave the Lord's side, Whose presence was even more compelling. Knowing my thoughts, he said, "You need never fear leaving My side, because - have made My abode in you and I will be with you everywhere that you go."

As I watched the presumptuous people, they were enjoying all of the blessings, and even thought of themselves as the reason for them, but they really were not even a part of what was being built. Having just been one of them I also knew how shallow their enjoyment was, compared to what it could be, and a great compassion came over me for them. As I continued watching these people, they gradually become thinner in substance until they were just like the phantoms I had seen in the city that had been destroyed. Again I thought of the Lord's words, "Those who seek to save their life will lose it, but those who lose their life for My sake will find it."

 

No Limits

Then I looked at how the building kept getting higher, and the higher it went the more glory it exuded and the further it could be seen. This resulted in even more ships and people coming through the storms, which were still raging, but seemed unable to affect the island. As I wondered how high the building could get, the Lord turned to me again and, as if He were answering my thoughts, said, "There is no limit to how high we can build this because I am the foundation and love is the cement."  This caused me to look at the cement, which was transparent but radiated a great power. I wondered how I had not noticed this before; it was now so obvious and captivating. I then started pondering how I seemed blind to even the greatest wonders of this building until the Lord directed my attention to them. This caused me to turn back to the Lord and to watch everything to which He gave His attention.

The Lord then began looking at the people who now composed the building. As I looked at them again I was immediately struck by the fact that they were more than people-I knew that they were the "new creation" that had transcended this creation. They had bridged the gap between the physical and spiritual realms, and were clearly a part of both. They were unquestionably supernatural, which did not mean that they were not natural, but were far more natural than anything "natural" I had ever seen. They were more real than anything I had ever considered "real." They made everything else seem like a shadow, and this sense increased as they continued to change.

Soon the glory that was coming from them could be both seen and felt. The feeling was not like a touch, but like an emotion.  As I walked close enough to this glory, it made me feel so good that the only way that I can describe it is like a wonderful intoxication, not one that clouded the mind, but illuminated it. I felt somehow ennobled, not with pride, but with a powerful sense of destiny. I also felt a profound security, as if I were in complete harmony with the ground, the air and especially the Lord and His house. This feeling was so good that I never wanted to move again.

With the addition of each new boat load of people, the transformation of those already a part of the building would continue, and the glory of the whole building would increase and expand. This made everyone in the building greatly rejoice with the coming of each new group of people.

 

Sharing The Glory

When those who came from the cemetery took their place in the building, those who were already a part tried to give the new ones their own glory. As they did this, the glory radiating from the Lord would increase, and He would give even more to those who had given their own glory away. Those who were the most devoted to this sharing would be the ones used to start the next level of the house, which kept going higher and higher.

I thought of how opposite this was from the jealousy which had prevailed previously in the city. I then tried to ponder the jealousy to understand it more, but it was almost impossible to do. Because I could no longer feel jealousy, I had a difficult time even understanding what it was-it seemed as unreal as if it had only existed in bad dreams.

The joy of sharing was so great that not doing it now seemed incomprehensible. The more the glory was shared, the more each one received to share. This joy of sharing was so great that I knew that all of us would be spending eternity just seeking others with whom to share the glory. I had a strong sense of knowing that the Lord would be creating many new worlds just for us to have new places to share His glory. I then knew that this was why He had created the universe with such diversity, and why He created it to continually expand at a rapid pace. Those who touched His glory were touched by a love that had to share the glory, which caused them to expand. He had given us the universe to share His glory with. He had set in motion a glorious  chain reaction that would never stop! There were no limits on time or space, and we would need every bit of it!

 

The Storms Return

Then suddenly my attention was turned toward the storms that had continued to grow in the sea. To my shock they had grown larger and faster than the house of the Lord, and were now coming toward the island.

Great waves covered the island and the building disappeared from my view, even though I was still very close to it. The fury of this storm was beyond comprehension, but I felt no fear at all. I knew that it was because I had already died to this world and had a life that could never be taken from me. As wonderful as the island had become, I was just as happy to die physically so that I would be free to carry the glory of the Lord to the rest of the universe that had so captured my attention. It really would have been hard to choose to stay or go, so I just rested and waited.

Gradually the storms abated and the building then re-emerged. Both the building and the island were much smaller, but even more glorious. Then I noticed that the storms were just off shore and were returning. This happened several times, and each time the building would emerge it would be smaller, but more glorious. Each time that this happened the storms were also much smaller-they were wearing themselves out on the island. Soon the storms could only generate small waves that posed no threat of any real damage. The glory of the house was now beyond any human description.

Then the clouds dissipated altogether into the most beautiful sky I had ever seen. As I gazed into the sky I began to realize that it was filled with the glory that was being emitted from the house. As I looked at the house I was amazed that there was no damage from the storm, though it was much smaller. Even so, the glory now coming from the house was much greater than before, and was reflected by everything. I felt that it was so great that it must already be extending far beyond the earth.

Then the vision changed and I was alone with the Lord. All of the great feelings were gone - even the love. He looked at me earnestly and said, "The war is almost over. It is time to prepare for the storms. Tell My people that no one with His brother's blood on His hands will be used to build My house."

I was trying hard to listen to these words in order to heed them, while still thinking about the great love I had felt. He then said, "This was a dream, but it is real. You have known everything that I have shown you in this dream in your heart. Now believe with your heart and My love will be real to you again. This is your quest-to know My love."

 

Comments

The general interpretation of this vision is obvious, but I do think that many of the feelings that I had during this experience are an important part of the message.

In looking at the different buildings which I knew represented denominations or movements, the architectural clash was so striking that it was grotesque. It was as if they were all so intent on being different that the most hideous skyline had been the result. I could not imagine anyone who happened upon such a city having any desire to enter it, even if the conflict was not taking place.

The church is doing much more damage to herself through infighting than the enemies without are able to do. At that time I was consciously surprised that the Lord did not intervene in this destructive fighting. Those who were fighting against the other denominations, or movements, were all disqualified from being a part of the house which the Lord built.

This reminded me of King David, who, because he was "a man of war and had shed blood" (I Chronicles 28:3), was not allowed to build the temple of the Lord. This did not disqualify David from salvation, or from being considered one of the great men of God of all time. I felt that many true saints, and even great men of God, were tragically disqualifying themselves from this most wonderful work of all by becoming embroiled in this spiritual civil war. This even caused them to lose the light that they had; only the peacemakers, and those who were trying to repair and build instead of tearing down, radiated with light in this vision.

I think that it was significant that almost all, if not all, of these buildings contained those who were true lights. These may appear as small lights now, but they will be the foundation upon which the Lord will build His house.

Because the sea sometimes represents "mass humanity" in Scripture (see Revelation 17: 15), the multitudes are going to rise up in great waves which will destroy much of the present, visible structure of the church. Those who are true lights will not be swept away by the waves. Those who walk in truth have a foundation which cannot be shaken.

The Lord's command to release the sea did not cause the sea to rise up, but just removed that which was restraining it. The sea then came with fury against the island, as if it were being controlled by a great hatred. I believe this represented a great hatred against visible, institutional Christianity that will arise, and the Lord will allow it to destroy these institutions.

When these great tidal waves had stopped, there were no Christian institutions as represented by the buildings that men had constructed. However, all of the real Christians remained. I do not think that it is wrong to keep trying to repair these structures, as the Lord honored and preserved those who did, but this vision affirmed deep within me the need to focus on building people, rather than trying to build another institution that will be able to stand in these times - none of them will stand.

Even though these present buildings were destroyed, they each contained those who were to be pillars in His house. The house of the Lord was a brand new building, but those who became the main supports in it came from almost every denomination and movement. The Lord is "the wise Man who brings forth from His treasures things both new and old." The Lord does have new wine to serve, but Isaiah 25:6 declares that the Lord will also serve "refined, aged wine." The Lord will not use either the old or the new, but both the old and new.

The Lord's house was built in the midst of the increasing storms of rage and lawlessness. It radiated as an even greater light because of those storms. I was encouraged that the Lord will build, on this earth, a church that really will reflect His glory, and that this age will not end until He does.

It could not be any other way. Moses contended when the Lord threatened to destroy Israel, that this would only leave the testimony that He could bring people out of Egypt, but could not lead them into the Promised Land. The Lord will have a testimony, through the church, that will last for all eternity. That testimony will be that He not only can forgive the sins of His church, but He also has the power and wisdom to deliver her from her sins, and make her into a glorious bride without spot or wrinkle:

Now when Jesus came into the district of Ceasarea Philippi, He began asking His disciples saying, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"  And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."  He then said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"   And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."   And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.  And I say to you that you are Peter ("a stone") and upon this rock (a large rock or bedrock) I will built my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:13-18).

Rick Joyner is the Executive Director of Morning Star Publications and is the Editor of The Morning Star Journal and The Morning Star Prophetic Bulletin. He is the author of several books including Harvest, There Were Two Trees In The Garden, The Passover, The Harvest Trilogy, Leadership, Management and the Five essentials For Success, The Journey Begins, The World Aflame, and The Final Quest

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RICK JOYNER'S VISION OF THE HARVEST

[The following text is from the Morning Star circa 1988. Copyright Morning Star Publications, 16000 Lancaster Hwy., Charlotte, NC 28277, phone: 704-542-0278]

PREFACE

This is a brief summary of a vision the Lord gave me about the coming harvest. Lord willing I hope to publish the entire vision in the near future. I am distributing this summary now because there are parts to it that have become very timely for the body of Christ. I also have reason to believe this may be coming to pass much sooner than I had previously considered.

To properly understand this vision you must keep in mind that it represents a GRADUAL unfolding which takes place over a period of time, possibly many years. Though I do not know the timing of these events, it is obvious that some are already beginning to take place. Whether the complete unfolding takes five years or fifty I do now know. I do know they will come as travail does upon a woman in labor. That is, they will come in waves with relative calm in between. As we get closer to the birth these "contractions" will become both more frequent and more intense until they are constant. I also perceive that the timing of these events will not be the same for all parts of the body of Christ.

Please let me include a caution. Much of this vision seems spectacular; its fulfillment will be even more so. Some who are foreseeing these things have begun to question works they are presently involved in as being irrelevant and destined to pass away. I think there are many works that should be questioned in this manner with or without the vision, but I know that many works which are destined to pass away in this coming move are presently serving the purpose of God and helping to prepare His way. I would question any drastic changes in direction caused by any vision. This was given merely to aid and give confidence to the preparation He is already working in His people. Do with all of your heart what He has given you to do. If we are abiding in Him, the changes that are coming will be an exhilarating fulfillment of His work, not its destruction. When the Lord fulfilled the Law it did pass away, but it did so with glory. When Jesus fulfilled it, for the first time its true purpose and all that it had accomplished was realized. Many works will fade in this coming move, but they too will do so with great glory if they were indeed His work.

In this vision I do not see beyond this harvest. I believe I somewhat understand the unfolding plan of God beyond this but that is my interpretation of the scriptures. As is was not given as a part of this vision I do not feel that it should be included here. I believe that the scriptures verify this vision but I have included very few here to leave room for the Lord to speak to those who receive it individually.

The Lord has revealed to many of His prophets that there will soon be a great outpouring of His Spirit. This revival will be greater than all those preceding it. This vision includes key elements to this coming harvest and what the Lord is doing in the church now to prepare for it.

This outpouring will ultimately result in some very radical changes for both the church and the world. These need to be understood by those who would be used by God for one of the greatest events in History. To those who are diligent seekers of God and obedient to His will, this vision does not represent disruption. These things will happen to them as a natural flow of the Spirit moving them to increased light and intimacy with Him. Those that are comfortable and resist change will have a very hard time. I ask you to openly and prayerfully reflect on what I am herein sharing with you. Some of these things may not speak to you now, but I believe they will in the future and will give you great peace and confidence as you remember them.

For the coming harvest the Lord is preparing a great spiritual "fishnet", one able to hold the catch that is coming. This net is formed by the linking together of His people. The links in this net are the interrelationships of His people. The stronger the intercommunication and interrelationships, the stronger this net will be. It in not only happening in the local churches among members, but between ministries and congregations throughout the world. In Ephesians 4:15-16, we see this principle: "...we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the Head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every JOINT supplies...." A joint is not a part, but it is where two or more parts come together. There is a great fitting together going on in the Spirit now and it will increase in the near future, on all levels.

The Spirit is compelling pastors to get together with other pastors, prophets with prophets, apostles with apostles, and even whole congregations are beginning to visit and interrelate with other congregations apart from their own circles of emphasis.  This is the Lord's doing. Some of these meetings may seem fruitless because of improper agendas but they will bear fruit, there will be links made. Soon the Lord's presence in these meetings will melt all presumption and the facades which separate us from union with Him and each other. His presence will stimulate a worship that brings about Psalm 133 unity - as we anoint the Head with our worship the oil will flow down to the edge of His robes - covering the entire body.

He is beginning this breakdown of barriers with the leadership because this is where most originate and where they are the strongest. As the walls come down here the entire body will begin to flow together. If the leaders resist this move the Lord will continue through the congregations. These will begin to relate to other members of the body of Christ and their bonds will grow stronger regardless of the resistance or warnings of their pastors. Some pastors and leaders who continue to resist this tide of unity will be removed from their place, Some will become so hardened they will become opposers and resist God to the end.  Most will be changed and repent of their resistance.

Because on the magnitude of the "catch" this net will be rent many times and will be in need of constant mending. Much of the discord now taking place in the church is used by the Lord to prepare those whose task in the harvest will be almost exclusively devoted to the mending and binding of this great net. These peacemakers will have a great part in building this net and have a major impact on the effectiveness of the entire revival. Those that seem to always find themselves in the middle of conflicts should be encouraged with the knowledge that they are being prepared for a great work.

Some that were used greatly of God in the past have become too rigid in doctrinal emphasis, or are too entangled with spiritual "Ishmaels", to participate in this revival. Some of these will try to join the work but their interrelationships will be so superficial that they will quickly be torn from the net with the first catch. Those who are linked together by doctrine or who gather around personalities will quickly be torn away. Only those who are joined by and through Jesus alone will stand the pressure this harvest will bring upon the church. (Col. 1:17). The redemption of so many will bring much joy but they will come with problems which bring enormous stress to congregations and ministers. The cords of unity must be very strong to stand this pressure. Those who have not learned to take the Lord's yoke, and not try to carry the burdens themselves, will be overwhelmed. Entering the Sabbath rest of the Lord will become a major emphasis in preparation for the harvest. Heed this word!

A large number who are now considered Christians, even spirit- filled Christians, have never been led to the Lord. They were led to the church, to a personality, or to a doctrine or emphasis. Some of these will think they are important links in the net but will actually become part of the harvest, starting over again on the proper Foundation -- Jesus. This group includes many well known ministers and pastors. Their humility in this will lead multitudes to question and strengthen their own relationship to the Lord. This will strengthen and encourage the entire body of Christ.

Many denominations, extra-local fellowships and circles of emphasis will begin disbanding and severing those ties, even those that were ordained by God for a season, in order to take their place in this great net that the Lord is now forming. For some these ties will just be ignored or forgotten until they have passed away, almost without notice, because of the greater intensity and substance of this new move. For others it will be a very painful rending as they are persecuted and rejected by those who do not understand. Those who are required to leave much behind will soon receive many times that which they have left.

Some leaders will actually disband their organizations as they realize they are no longer relevant to what God is doing. Others will just leave them behind to disband of themselves. Ultimately, all circles of ministry or influence with individual identities will dissolve into a single identity of simply being Christians for all who become part of this harvest. Single presbyteries will form over cities and localities. These will be made up of pastors and leaders from all different backgrounds. Their unity and harmony in purpose, as well as that of the various congregations, will become a marvel to the world. The Lord will give these presbyteries great wisdom and discernment but there will be no doubt that Jesus alone will be the Head of His church. What is coming will be bigger than any man or council of men could control or administrate.

The Lord's purpose in preparing for the harvest is to JOIN, not separate. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants. They will not be just leaving something behind, they will be going on to a much greater work. Those who have fallen to worship the work of God more than the God of the work will have trouble, but most of these too will be set free by the tremendous anointing that is coming. Those that feel called to attack and tear down the old will not be sent from the Lord. There will be many "stumbling blocks" circulating in the church that will cause confusion and some destruction from time to time. They will perceive themselves as prophets sent to judge and deliver. Those serving in leadership must trust their discernment and REMOVE the stumbling blocks.

To be distinguished from the "stumbling blocks," the Lord will raise up a great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles that will be of the spirit of Phinehas. Just as the son of Eleazar could not tolerate iniquity in the camp of the Lord, this "ministry of Phinehas" will save congregations, and at times, even whole nations, from the plagues that will be sweeping the earth. They will be moved by the jealousy of the Lord for the purity of His people. They will be sent to save and preserve the work of the Lord, not tear down as the stumbling blocks so fashion themselves.

For a time, there will be such an inflow of people that even this great net cannot hold them all. Many of the former works and organized churches will be swelled with this overflow. Because of this they will assert that they are both the cause and primary purpose for this revival. This delusion will not last long because concurrent with the harvest there will be gripping tribulation in the world which will eventually consume them. This is the judgement of the Lord against the works He did not commission: The great "sea," or mass of humanity, that they sought to rule, will rise up to destroy them.

Wars will increase. There will even be some nuclear exchanges but on a limited basis, mostly between third world nations. Far more will perish by plagues and natural disasters than by wars during the period of this vision. The very foundations of civilization will shake and erode. Even the world's most stable governments will be melting like wax, losing authority and control over their populations. Eventually it will be hard to find anyone with the courage to assume authority. This will cause sweeping paranoia throughout the entire earth. Huge mobs will attack everything in their path. The infra-structure of the great denominational churches and large visible ministries will be one of their primary targets and will vanish almost overnight. Pagan religions, cults and witchcraft will spread like plagues but these will also become targets of the mobs. By this time governments have broken down to the point where lynchings and mass executions perpetrated by these mobs are ignored by the authorities. Fear and deep darkness cover the earth, but this just makes the glory which is appearing upon the saints more striking. Huge masses of people will be streaming to the Lord, the inflow so great in places that very young Christians will be pastoring large bodies of believers. Arenas and stadiums will overflow nightly as the believers come together to hear the apostles and teachers.

At this time few congregations remain separate or individual entities. Many elders and pastors may be stationary but groups they oversee will be constantly changing. some of these are moving on because of persecution and others because the Lord scatters them to carry His message abroad like seed. Near the end (of the vision) the body of Christ is like a great flowing river sweeping about as freely as the wind. One day there may be meetings in a public auditorium or stadium, the next day in a park, and continually from house to house. Great meetings that stir entire cities will happen spontaneously. Extraordinary miracles will be common while those considered great today will be performed almost without notice by young believers. Angelic appearances will be common to the saints and a visible glory of the Lord will appear upon some for extended periods of time as power flows through them.

Conferences of apostles, prophets, pastors, elders, etc.. will be called and used greatly by the Lord, but without denominating and separating from the rest of the body. Their unity will be in Jesus and He alone will be the Head of His church. Eventually, The Lords presence will be so great during this revival that, like the twenty-four elders in Revelation, all crowns will be cast at His feet and spiritual presumption will be unthinkable. Those in leadership without calling will be apparent to all. The leaders of this move will be true servants, not interested in reputation or position. Their humility will open them to become channels for wave after wave of living water. "He will dwell with the humble of the land."

This harvest will be so great that no one will look back at the early church as a standard; all will be saying the Lord has certainly saved his best wine for last. The early church was a firstfruits offering, truly this will be a harvest! It was said of the Apostle Paul that we was turning the world upside down; it will be said of the apostles soon to be anointed that they have turned an upside down world right side up. Nations will tremble at the mention of their name. These men and women of God will take little notice of their own accomplishments because of their recognition of His accomplishments. Like Jesus, they will flee to the mountains when men try to make them kings or exalt them in any way. Their exaltation or authority will not come through man, it will only come from above. As the masses will be seeking anyone to take authority during these times, this comes as a warning! If the people make you king, who rules? The authority that the Lord will establish will be very different than what even His own people now perceive. Do not try to rule, just SERVE. Through this His authority will flow and begin to bring order thought Peace.

I do not believe the actual magnitude of these events can be expressed here, neither the chaos nor the move of the Holy Spirit.As to the "rapture" or second appearance of the Lord Jesus, I have my own ideas but was not given anything concerning them in this vision. What I was allowed to foresee ended with increasing chaos and increasing revival.

There will be words and exhortations, originating from the very throne of the Lord and carrying great authority; coming to prepare His church for the days to come. Not to presume this will be all that He will be saying, but I believe we will soon hear His prophets and teachers begin to emphasize the following:

1. BUILD UPON THE ONLY FOUNDATION THAT CAN BE LAID. JESUS HIMSELF. Works that are built upon truths instead of The truth will not stand in this day. Many congregations and ministries are today devastated by the slightest shaking. The works that are properly built on Jesus will with stand the greatest trials and attacks without being moved. There will be a great emphasis on the Lord Jesus Himself in the days to come. The increasing revelation of Him will overshadow the many emphases of the past like the sun does the moon when it rises. The truths that have been such a distraction will begin to seem insignificant as the church begins to see Him "in whom are hidden ALL of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Col. 2:3)

2. REMOVE THE BARRIERS AND FACADES THAT SEPARATE US FROM THE LORD AND EACH OTHER. We must become more intimate with Him, and through Him, each other. Spiritual pride and the exaltation of men, individual truths, or works, will soon be understood as "strange fire". Those who continue to offer it will perish from the ministry with such demonstration that a pure and holy fear of the Lord will sweep the body of Christ. This will help the church to move into true spiritual worship and a unity that is based on that worship.

3. ABIDE IN THE SABBATH REST OF THE LORD. This will become an increasing emphasis in the teaching and a reality as the Lord enters His temple, the church. Our growing intimacy with Him will bring a peace that will actually calm the storm of the rising sea of humanity. The intensity of the times will overwhelm any pseudo peace. We must be one with the "Lord of the Sabbath."

4. HEED THE SPIRITUAL PREPARATION WHICH MAY BE REFLECTED IN THE NATURAL. For example: Some have begun moving their assets into precious metals or land. This may be helpful, but it is far more important to take the spiritual land an to lay up our treasures in heaven. The Lord is seeking givers who will become channels of His supply. For them there will not be any lack. Those that hoard or do not learn to freely give may suffer increasing crisis in their earthly affairs. This is the Lord's discipline to set them free. Some who are faithful and generous givers may also experience increasing crisis in this, but it is for their preparation to be great channels for the provision of many. Remember Joseph!

Some are feeling they should limit their travel to certain areas and are beginning to emphasize cleanliness because of the AIDS epidemic. This may be helpful, but there is only one deliverance from the judgments of God - to be found in Christ. Spiritual purity is far more important than the natural and can alone protect us from AIDS or any other plague.

5. "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH," NOT FEAR. Fears will greatly increase in the world. Actions taken by the church because of fear will almost always prove destructive. Some "faith teaching" has muddied the waters to the degree that some do not even want to hear the word "faith." This frequently happens before the Lord begins a great work. A great revelation of true faith is coming; it will be an essential revelation for us to serve in these days. Some will be called to walk where angels fear to tread. KNOW that He who is in us is MUCH greater than he who is in the world. The vessels He is now preparing will walk in a boldness and confidence that will astonish a world gripped in fear. Our faith will grow as the presence of the Lord increases. True faith is the recognition of the One in whom we believe. When one truly and properly fears the Lord He will not fear anything else.

In the coming days many will exist in the miraculous in a continual basis. This will become as natural to them as the gathering of manna was to Israel. Some of the Lord's exploits on behalf of His people will be UNPRECEDENTED, exceeding the greatest biblical miracles. These will seem almost normal as they take place because the presence of the Lord will cause more wonderment than his works. He will be very close to His people in these days.

6. THE LORD WILL SOON OPEN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF HIS WORD AND PURPOSES TO A DEPTH BEYOND OUR PRESENT COMPREHENSION. The "books" are yet to be "opened" as they will be. When they are our understanding of even basic truths, such as salvation, being born again, etc.. will be enormously increased. This will give far more substance and depth of purpose to the entire body of Christ. the functions of the gifts and ministries will come with increasing authority and power as their confidence increases with knowledge. The spiritual dimension will become more real to the church than the natural. When the proper Foundation has been adequately laid in the church (our union and devotion to Jesus Himself) the Spirit of Revelation will be poured out as never before.

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WHY I OPPOSE THE 'CIVIL WAR'  

by Andrew Strom, New Zealand

2 Aug 1996

Rick Joyner has assured me that he did not mean what I thought he meant in his article on the coming Civil War in the church. However, despite my respect for Rick, I believe that this issue surely has to be the most critical that has faced the church in recent decades. Does God really want the prophetic movement "taking sides" in the coming conflict? And is this Civil War really a good thing, or will it be the most colossal disaster that has befallen the church in centuries? In New Zealand, God has given us very strong prophetic warnings regarding this whole issue, and this is what will be discussed in this article.

For at least ten years now, particularly in the American prophetic movement, God has been warning of the great 'Civil War' that would soon split and shake His church. A number of prophetic ministries have been given dreams and visions likening this coming great con- flict in the church to the American Civil War of last century, was fought between the Union in the North (the Blues) and the Confederacy in the South (the Grays). In these dreams and visions of the coming war in the church, God has also likened one side to the 'Grays' and one side to the Blues. Many prophets have interpreted this to mean a conflict between those who are distinctly 'head-knowledge'- oriented Christians, and those who are distinctly 'Spirit'-oriented. (This certainly seems a logical conclusion). No doubt there have always been tensions between these two extremes in the church, but this time it will be all-out war.

However, God has also warned very strongly that those who take part in this conflict will be excluded from the great Revival that is to follow immediately after this colossal 'shaking'. One very well-known vision, which was quoted by Rick Joyner in his article, was given to Philip Elston several years ago. In it, he saw Jesus standing with arms outstretched. Soldiers in blue and gray uniforms were marching past Him on either side, and were laying their bloody swords on His arms. The Lord resolutely looked into the  eyes of each one, saying, "NO-ONE WHO HAS THEIR BROTHER'S BLOOD ON THEIR SWORD WILL BE USED TO BUILD MY HOUSE."

It is well-known around the world that civil wars are usually the most bitter, destructive and ugly conflicts that it is possible to  have. Brother against brother, fathers, cousins and countrymen  consumed with murderous enmity one against the other. What a nightmare! (As we have seen recently in Rwanda and Bosnia). One thing I certainly do agree with in Rick Joyner's article is his statement that: "This will, in fact, be one of the most cruel battles the church has ever faced. Like every civil war, it will cause brother to turn against brother like we may have never witnessed in the church before... What is coming will be dark. At times Christians almost universally will be loath to even call themselves Christians. Believers and unbelievers alike will think that it is the end of Christianity as we know it, and it will be."

He then goes on to say that: "Through this the very definition of Christianity will be changed, for the better." I am afraid that, due to the strong prophetic warnings God has given us in New Zealand, I simply cannot go along with that last statement.

However, I certainly do believe that we are headed for a great splitting and shaking of the church (in fact, I believe that this will be a form of JUDGEMENT upon today's Laodicean church). But I just cannot go along with the idea that the prophetic movement is to actively participate or "take sides" in this conflict, or that this Civil War is some marvellous thing that we should all be looking forward to in the church. The idea that we should join in with this war, to try and drive the "Accuser of the brethren" out of other Christian groups in this way, frankly strikes me as being one of the most disastrous and ill-advised courses of action that I have ever heard.

But what are we to think when we read things like: "...it was time to straightforwardly warn the church, and to begin preparing for this great war with the resolve to fight until there was a complete victory. The definition of a complete victory in this war would be the complete overthrow of the Accuser of the Brethren's strongholds in the church... This battle must be fought. It is an opportunity to drive the accuser out of the church..." (- From 'Civil War in the Church', published May, 1996). I am afraid I simply cannot agree with any of this. Surely it is obvious that all that would be accomplished by such a brutal, all-out conflict is that the church would literally tear itself apart? And aside from a whole raft of crushed and damaged Christians, what would be the real fruit of such a War?

Before I go on to discuss what God has been showing us here in NZ, I would just like to briefly discuss my own background. I am a Spirit-filled, tongues-speaking believer, and have been involved with the Charismatic movement now for some years. I am also a great believer in the coming end-times Revival, and through my writings on this subject I have come into contact with hundreds of praying and prophetic groups and individuals across New Zealand. My wife and I are also modern musicians who write our own songs, and we have been clearly directed towards "Sons of Thunder" type music ministry for about ten years now. I am also a Revival historian, and have been studying Revival and Reformation history for about twelve years. I am currently Editor of the New Zealand Revival Bulletin, which is a national prophetic journal.

There have been a large number of dreams and visions given to prophets and intercessors in New Zealand regarding the coming move of God. (Many of these are covered in my book, "The Coming Great Reformation"). Like elsewhere around the world, they have often spoken of the great 'shaking', division and Reformation that are about to come upon the church. One vision which relates particularly well to our present discussion, was given to a local intercessor (whom I know personally) early in 1995. In this vision, she saw the waters being parted, just as Moses parted the sea. The words that she was given to describe what she was seeing were: "TWO CHURCHES". In other words, what she was witnessing was the dividing of the current church into two distinct 'churches' or movements. For a time, while the gap between the two sides was still relatively small, Christians were easily able to jump from side to side. However, as the gap widened, this became more and more difficult, and eventually the only way people could get from one side to the other was to jump into the deep rift itself (the sides of which now looked like huge 'cliffs' of water), to be hauled up by people on the other side. Significantly, this intercessor was given the strong impression that the catalyst for this great rift was to be the 'Toronto blessing' movement.

Certainly, I have noticed a far more "militant" mood amongst the 'Spirit'- oriented believers since Toronto has swept through the church. There seems to be a lot more talk of aggressive mobilisation and aggressive defence of the movement against those who oppose it. This hardening of attitude has also coincided with a similar hardening on the other side. Many of the 'conservative', evangelical-type Christians seem to have been particularly appalled by Toronto, and have become quite bitter in their opposition.  So we can see that conditions for a Civil War in the church have indeed been greatly advanced by 'Toronto' (and I guess by 'Pensacola' also, which is closely related). For to have a civil war, it is necessary for BOTH SIDES to become quite "militant" in their stance, one against the other.

With all of this in mind, I just want to take a look now at one of the most important reasons that God has shown us, why we should not even consider lifting our hands against opposing leaders or organizations in the church (even if they are considered 'Saulish' by nature). The well-known lesson that God has very strongly pointed us to is found in the story of David and Saul. In those times, just like today, there was a 'new move of God' - a golden era for Israel - on the horizon. This new era would begin when the new leadership (ie. David) was finally raised up and recognized as the true leader of God's people. Remember, king Saul had already been rejected by God as leader, and David had been anointed by the prophet to take his place. But did David then try to wrest control of Israel away from Saul? Did he try to attack Saul and bring about this new golden era himself? No! In fact he did the very opposite.

David refused to lift his hand against Saul in any way. He still regarded Saul as being the "Lord's anointed", God's chosen leader, right up until the time that GOD HIMSELF acted to completely annul Saul's kingship (by allowing him to be killed in battle against Israel's enemies). In other words, David waited until SAUL WAS DEAD - in God's perfect timing - before he made any move toward taking up the leadership of Judah and Israel. HE NEVER FOUGHT SAUL AT ALL - FOR THE KINGDOM OR FOR ANYTHING ELSE. For he knew that to do so would have been REBELLION, and would have been pre-empting what God was wanting to do. In fact, it is my belief that if Davidhad raised his hand against Saul, then he would have proved himself unworthy of the leadership of Israel, and would have disqualified himself because of it. God never sanctions rebellion, and this was obviously a very crucial test for David.

During his years of waiting, David suffered greatly in many ways.  He was slandered, misunderstood, hunted like an animal, forced to live in caves in the wilderness, etc. And NOT ONCE did he raise his hand against Saul, even under the pretext of "liberating" the people of Israel who were being ruled by Saul. It is my belief that today, anyone who raises their hands against opposing leaders or groups, or participates in a 'Civil War' against them at this time, is falling into this self-same trap, and will disqualify themselves from taking part in the coming move of God. This is clearly what the vision that we discussed earlier is saying: "NO-ONE WHO HAS THEIR BROTHER'S BLOOD ON THEIR SWORD WILL BE USED TO BUILD MY HOUSE."

I now want to share with you something else, of a slightly "unusual" nature, which God has also pointed out to us as a strong prophetic warning on this subject. Strangely enough, 1995 was by far the most unusual year for New Zealand sport in living memory, with massive 'shaking' or Reformation being visited upon three of our top national sports during that time in an unprecedented period of crisis and change. Uncannily, as God pointed out to me, much of this 'shaking' and Reformation was almost identical to what God had been telling us was about to come upon His church. And interestingly, in two of these sports, the concept of 'Civil War' was right at the centre of what occurred.

The two sports that I am referring to here are Rugby Union (played right around the world) and Rugby League (played mainly in England, Australia and New Zealand). These are very big sports, especially in the Southern Hemisphere. In early 1995, it was announced by Robert Murdoch's News Corporation that they were launching a new rebel League competition (because they didn't have broadcast rights to the existing one), which would be called "Superleague".  They immediately began signing up many of the best Rugby League players around the world, even though most of them in Australia and New Zealand still had contracts with the existing competition.  What resulted from this was a literal 'Civil War' in Rugby League, with two giant media moguls fighting for control of the sport's best players, and much bitterness and ill-will on both sides. All of this was played out in the full glare of the media spotlight, and it has done terrible harm to the sport as a whole. Right now, Rugby League is still split irrevocably into two camps, with ongoing legal nightmares, and players in Britain beginning to defect to Rugby Union because of better conditions. For a sport that was doing so well, and beginning to make big inroads in NZ, this Civil War has been an absolute disaster, and things are already beginning to look very grim for the long-term survival of League as a truly leading sport in some areas. (In fact, you could almost say  it has been suicidal - different limbs of the same body tearing murderously at one another).

Meanwhile, in Rugby Union, 1995 was literally the most revolutionary and crisis-stricken year in the sport's long history. Rugby Union had always been one of the last really big 'Amateur' sports, but because of the perceived threat of "Superleague", it suddenly went Professional almost overnight in 1995, securing a multi-million dollar TV deal and speeding up the pace of the game with rule changes, etc. In New Zealand (arguably the best Rugby nation in the world at the moment), they also revolutionised the entire top administration (which was old and stodgy), getting rid of twelve men, thus leaving only seven (plus two business advisors) on the national council. They also appointed John Hart, the most innovative man they could find, as national coach. All of this has led to a truly 'golden era' for Rugby in the Southern Hemisphere.

However, Rugby Union also came very close to 'Civil War' in 1995 (which would have ruined everything, just like it has in League).  Just as Rugby Union was turning Professional, another rebel group (the World Rugby Corporation) came along, and began to sign up all the leading Rugby Union players around the world, offering them better money, etc. Just like the rebel Superleague, for a long time it looked as though this new rebel Rugby Union competition would succeed, and would capture all the best players. But right at the last moment, the whole thing began to unravel, and the players eventually crawled back to the Union (just in time). If this new rebel competition had succeeded (as it very nearly did), there would no doubt have been all-out 'Civil War' in Rugby Union, just like in Rugby League, and the damage would likewise have been suicidally crippling and severe. The sport would probably have taken years to recover (if at all). But instead, Civil War was narrowly averted, and traditional old 'Amateur' Rugby Union was able to revolutionise itself so completely in the space of just one year, that it has entered what many regard as a glorious new "golden era". So who needs a Civil War? (Please note that it was the 'rebellious' movements who were responsible for starting these destructive conflicts).

To me, the lessons that God has been trying to show us in pointing to the above examples are pretty obvious. Civil Wars of any kind are extremely damaging and debilitating. Do we really need to tear the church apart with this kind of bitter public infighting, in order to see Revival come to the church? I don't think so! In fact, I believe that such a Civil War is far more likely to be a form of "JUDGEMENT" upon the church, and upon all who participate in it, rather than anything positive. If there is a Civil War in the church, I am convinced that those who participate in it will have no part whatsoever in the coming move of God. Surely it makes sense that God would give all these visions of the coming Civil War as a WARNING, not as some kind of invitation to participate in it!?

Frankly, I have to say that I have been very disappointed that the American prophetic movement has seemingly advocated "taking sides" in the coming conflict. To me, this seems the height of irresponsiblity, and it alarms me greatly. I have to say also, that there are a number of factors associated with the prophetic movement in America that have disturbed me for some years now. I don't know how well my words will be taken over there, but I do believe that   these issues are important enough to risk raising them at this time. Sometimes an outsider's view can be of value, but I do apologise in advance for any offence caused by what I am about to say.

It seems to me that there are some very profound differences between the way the prophetic movement is set up in America, and the way it functions in other parts of the world. In America, there seems to be a very strong perception amongst friend and foe alike, that the prophetic movement there is so closely aligned with one particular denomination that they might almost be considered to be one movement. Surely this would have to be seen as a very unhealthy state of affairs for any truly 'prophetic' group.

How on earth can your words be taken as "impartial" when you are seen to be so closely aligned with the views and teachings of one particular stream or denomination? Is this what God really wants?  I am by no means part of the "Anti-Vineyard" brigade, but is it really desirable to have a prophetic movement that is seen by many to be more of a mouthpiece for the Vineyard movement than an impartial mouthpiece for God? I am sorry if I am offending you, but I frankly find it incredible that such a movement could see this as an acceptable state of affairs. And I also believe that, as always, there will be subtle pressure in such a situation, not to be too critical or too analytical about some of the teachings or practices that are associated with the 'related body'.

It is my belief that this unhealthy association with one particular stream has already affected the way that some issues have been examined by the American prophetic movement over the last few years or so. Elsewhere in the world, this is not the case, and other prophetic movements are free to analyse such issues without any perceived bias one way or the other. But how can the same be said of the American prophetic movement? As I said before, this apparent partiality surely has to be seen as a most debilitating weakness in any movement of this kind. Prophets are supposed to be beyond reproach in the area of impartiality. They are supposed to be the "eyes", the watchmen of the church. Surely this can only be harmed when there is a perceived bias in favour of one particular (controversial) stream of teaching?

One thing that has struck me repeatedly about the American prophetic scene is the seemingly never-ending talk about the problem of 'legalism' and Pharisee-type religion in the church. Certainly, this has been a problem (I have written detailed warnings about it myself in the past). But honestly, do we really need to go on and on about it, like some broken record or an endless tape loop?  Surely we would have to be kidding ourselves if we thought that this was the major problem facing the 'Laodicean' church? I just cannot go along with the idea that it is "the control spirit, the political spirit and the religious spirit" that are largely responsible for the sick and tepid state of today's lukewarm Christianity. This is certainly not what the Bible says. The Scriptures are very clear as to what the major problems of the Laodicean church are: "... because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth. Because you say, 'I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing'... BE ZEALOUS THEREFORE, AND REPENT" (Rev 3:16-19).

It seems beyond dispute to me that the major problems of the Laodicean church are compromise, lukewarmness and materialism, etc, rather than some kind of 'control' spirit or pharisaical attitude.  And when the Bible speaks of the "last days", it warns again and again of seducing spirits, 'lying signs and wonders', great deception amongst Christians (arising from within the church), etc.  Surely any truly 'prophetic' movement in the last days would be warning strongly of such dangers? But we don't seem to be hearing many warnings about these things from today's prophetic movement, do we? Could it be that it is more "politically correct" in the Vineyard to attack legalism and domination, but not 'lying signs and wonders' or similar deception?

Surely it is obvious that if we live today in the age of the 'Laodicean' church, then we should be emphasising what Jesus Himself emphasised: The desperate need for REPENTANCE from today's "bless-me, bless-me" Christianity, and from the insipid compromise and 'love of pleasures' that dominate so much of today's church.  Does "taking up the cross" not mean what it says any more?

It is a well-known fact that over-emphasising certain doctrines or teachings can lead to a very unbalanced Christianity. If you are over-balancing in the direction of 'legalism', then your preaching will cause heaviness and condemnation in people. On the other hand, if you are constantly preaching AGAINST legalism, and instead tending to strongly emphasise 'liberty' and grace all the time, then your preaching will result in the opposite problem: The people will tend towards 'casting off of restraint', license, and a spiritual "fun/party" atmosphere. Sin and holiness will be deemphasised, and touchy-feely 'experiences' will tend to come to the fore. (This is simply a logical result of such teaching).   Sound familiar, anyone? This kind of inbalance is surely just as serious and just as damaging as the 'legalistic' type of extreme.  They are both at opposite ends of the scale, but as history clearly demonstrates, such inbalance in any direction can be absolutely fatal for God's people.

To get back to our original theme of 'Civil War' once again, a friend of mine who is a well-known prophet in Australia, was given a very significant vision in 1995. In it, he saw a giant army snaking through the jungle. At it's head was the banner, "Joel's Army". Meanwhile, off in the jungle by itself was a battalion. It stood, waiting. This battalion was in the shape of a great square, and at it's head was a banner: "Gideon's Army". It was much smaller than the first. It seemed evident that Joel's Army was going to war, but that Gideon's Army had yet to receive it's marching orders.

It is interesting to note that the Scriptures openly declare Joel's Army to be an army of LOCUSTS, which sweeps through immediately prior to the genuine Revival, devouring and destroying every good thing in the land. First comes this great army of locusts devouring everything, then God drives the locusts away and sends a great Revival, followed by a great outpouring of His Spirit "upon all flesh". (If you don't believe me, just read the book of Joel for yourself. It is very clear. There can simply be no dispute about it). So why are we being told that joining up with Joel's Army is such a desirable thing?

Another very significant dream was given to a local prophet (whom I know personally) several years ago (quite some months before the 'Toronto blessing' was even heard of here). In this dream, he found himself in a large auditorium full of people. Many of these people appeared spiritually 'fat' and overfed (including many of the leaders), while the rest seemed small in comparison. At the front of the auditorium he saw people FALLING DOWN LAUGHING AND CRYING, etc, and the words that were clearly spoken to him to describe what he was seeing were: "LAODICEAN REVIVAL". He noticed that it was essentially the large, overfed looking people who were really becoming 'caught up' in this laughing, crying and falling, etc. In the dream, my friend was taken and seated with the small people. And as he watched, a great gulf began to appear between the large people (who were still caught up in their 'Laodicean revival') and the little people, who were being steadily drawn away from this scene until a yawning gulf had developed between the two groups. Suddenly a great tide of young people flooded in all around these little people, and they began to minister to them in the power of Jesus Christ. The prophet knew that this was the beginning of the true Revival. Glory to God!

Notice in the above dream of the "TWO REVIVALS" that it was the 'Laodicean revival' that came first, followed after an interval by the genuine Revival. This dream is confirmed by the well-known prophetic allegory, "Escape from Christendom" (published by Morning Star several years ago) which also contains two revivals - one counterfeit and one genuine. It also seems to fit in perfectly with the pattern found in the book of Joel.

I have to say that I have been astonished that the American prophetic movement has allowed itself to become so closely identified in the minds of many Christians around the world, with the 'Toronto' movement. I myself put this down to the fact that their close association with the Vineyard clouded their judgement, and meant that they did not look at this movement as objectively or as analytically as they should have. Speaking personally, having witnessed the 'Toronto' manifestations for myself, and also as a Revival historian, I have to say that this movement surely has to be the most dubious that has arisen in the church for well over a century. Why on earth would the American prophetic movement allow itself to become so strongly identified with such a movement? The only explanation is their close association with the Vineyard. And so here we are, in the last days (the days of great deception amongst Christians, of seducing spirits and "lying signs and wonders" in the church), with the most well-known prophetic movement in the world actually supporting a 'revival' that is surely one of the most suspect and dubious spiritual movements in history. Alarming, isn't it?

Some time ago, God gave me a prophetic analogy from the story of the children of Israel in the wilderness. It is clear that the wilderness was a place of testing and trial for the Israelites before they could enter into the promised land. God showed me that the twelve spies who went in to spy out the land were really just like prophets, who have been shown in the spirit what the Revival of tomorrow will be like - a land "flowing with milk and honey".  However, in the end result, ONLY TWO of these spies (or prophets) - Joshua and Caleb - were truly uncompromising in their stand for truth and for God's promise. The other ten spies, even though they had been shown what was to come, simply did not possess the uncompromising, immovable steadfastness that was necessary to inherit the promised land. Even though they were definitely true prophets (in the sense that they had truly 'spied out the land'), they preached an insipid, compromising word, and all who trusted in them perished in the wilderness. Joshua and Caleb, the "immovable" prophets (and their families) were the only ones from that entire generation who made it into the promised land. The rest all fell at the final hurdle - the last great 'test'. Their prophets had let both them, and God, down very badly.

Like the children of Israel, I am convinced that today's church has been passing through it's own wilderness of testing in recent times (just before the 'promised land' of true Revival). And like the Israelites, I am convinced that only a "remnant" will eventually make it through into the coming move of God. (This principle is all the way through Scripture). It will be a "Gideon's Army" (a remnant army), rather than a "Joel's Army" that will bring in the great last-days harvest. This is clearly what God has been speaking in the dreams and visions that we have discussed. And it seems obvious from the Scriptures also.

I would just like to conclude this article by saying that it has not been my intention here at all, to 'attack' the American prophetic movement, but rather to warn and plead with them, to at least consider the possibility that what I am saying is true. It is my belief that the U.S. prophetic movement is now in far greater danger than it is probably aware of, just like the many previous movements that have found themselves in a similar position down through history. Tragically, it has often been found doubly true of Revivals that: "The good becomes the enemy of the best". My great fear is that this may again prove to be the case this time.

In closing, I would just like to urge all who are reading this to step back for a moment and take a good hard look at what is happening around them. Please think twice before allying yourself in any way with "Joel's Army". Remember, Gideon's Army is WAITING for God to move, while Joel's Army is just about to march off to war.  The choice between these two is an absolutely crucial one. For again, let me repeat what Jesus Himself said in the vision: "NO-ONE WHO HAS THEIR BROTHER'S BLOOD ON THEIR SWORD WILL BE USED TO BUILD MY HOUSE." Amen.

______________________

[Please note that it was never stated in the above article that I believed the U.S. prophetic movement to be officially joined with the Vineyard. I was merely making the point that there were strong ties generally between the Vineyard and the most well-known and widely recognized of the American prophetic movements. This is absolutely common knowledge, and even the most cursory look at the relationship between many prophetic ministries and the Vineyard in the U.S. will confirm what I am saying. -A.S.]

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QUOTES TAKEN FROM SANDY S________'S PAGE OF QUOTES

RICK JOYNER

Editor of MorningStar Magazine and prophet.

"What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord’s faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas…" (Rick Joyner, The Harvest, op. cit. "Joel’s Army.")

[ Editor:  Balaam's Ass Speaks--  This means that they will take up arms and kill us.  ]

Rick Joyner reports visions of "a bloody civil war" in the Church. (Latter Rain Revival, 1996)

Rick Joyner has identified "Antichrist" as the orthodox church. (Weighed and Found Wanting, Bill Randles, p. 64.)

Rick Joyner on the subject of the latter-day apostles and prophets who will be greater than the apostles and prophets of Biblical times: "In the near future we will not be looking back at the early church with envy because of the great exploits of those days, but all will be saying that He certainly did save His best wine for last. The most glorious times in all of history have not come upon us. You, who have dreamed of one day being able to talk with Peter, John and Paul, are going to be surprised to find that they have all been waiting to talk to you." (Rick Joyner, The Harvest (Pineville, NC, MorningStar, 1990, 9)

[  Editor:  Balaam's Ass Speaks--  We have been hearing the prophecies from brownsville about this.  So, soon, Charismania will abandon the Word of God, as they have already, and they will stop cliaming visions and manifestations fromt eh Holy Spirit, and they will go on to claim they are getting the very voice of Peter, Paul, the Apsotles, and, no doubt, "The Blessed Virgin."  I dare say, at Trinity Brampton, and Sunderland, they will be hearing from Churchill and Bobby Burns, what?  ]

"Like the American Civil War, the coming spiritual civil war will also be between the Blue and the Gray. In dreams and visions blue often represents heavenly mindedness - the sky is blue - and gray speaks of thos who live by the power of their own minds - the brain is often called gray matter - this will be a conflict between those who may be genuine Christians, but who live mostly according to their natural minds and human wisdom, and those who follow the Holy Spirit." (Rick Joyner, The Morning Star Prophetic Bulletin, May 1996, 2)

"There will also be some new wonders coming to the church. We had some of these just recently where Bob Jones and I heard angels singing twice in a meeting. This didn't even take any faith, it was so loud and so clear, it was like a choir singing. Another time, we had the odor of incense fill a meeting for about 15 minutes. It was so intense that you couldn't help but smell it...He gave it as a witness that He was receiving the intercession from these people, the prayers and their intercession. He had said He would come with a sign that we would smell the incense. It came so powerfully faith was hardly needed. And we saw the wind of the Spirit blow so hard at a meeting you could see people's hair blowing! So He is coming a whole lot more dramatically. As one brother said, 'This hardly takes any faith, it is so obvious.' But when He comes in ways like that, it is always to give a message. He is not just trying to tickle our curiosity or our interest in supernatural things, He is trying to say something to us." One of the major points I have tried to make through (my) book, is that there has been a "conditioning" of God's people over the years. They have been conditioned to become more attuned to sensual manifestation than to the Word of God. Joyner ends this paragraph by saying that "He (God) is trying to say something to us." God has spoken already through His Son and through the Word of God, He doesn't need to give you scents of honeysuckle to let you know He heard your prayers. He wants us to come by faith. Heb 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." I could go on and on about the damage done to the Charismatic church and the Body as a whole, through the Kansas City Prophets affair, but I think I've made my point. I contend that what we are seeing in Toronto, through Rodney Howard-Browne, and all over the world, is merely the logical next step, to what was begun in the 1940's, carried on by the Latter Rain/Manifested Sons teachers, progressing into the Dominion Now, Kingdom Now crowd, The Faith Message, the prophetic move, up to this day. Where is this "river" taking us? Into delusion and apostasy! (Rick Joyner, Faith Hardly Needed From Fullness, Jan/Feb 1990 "The Unfolding of a Prophet." Page 13, with commentary by Bill Randles, Weighed And Found Wanting, 1994, appendix)

"From the first Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit has proven that He will only come to the degree that we have unity." Joyner makes this statement without regard to the fact that every person who beleives in Jesus Christ receives the Holy Spirit, therefore He has already "come" to every believer. "Unity" is not the criteria for the Holy Spirit to "come". Belief is. Eph. 1:13 "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit." 1 Cor. 12:13 "For we were ALL baptized by one Spirit into one body whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free and we were ALL given the one Spirit to drink." (Emphasis mine) (Rick Joyner, "Azusa Street - The Fire That Could Not Die", The Morning Star Journal, Volume 7, Number 1, with comment by Sandy S________, 1997)

"At the height of the Azusa Street revival Seymour prophesied, "We are on the verge of the greatest miracle the world has ever seen." The miracle he was referring to was a true love and unity between races and creeds that he considered to be fundamental Christianity. When it does, William J. Seymour must be considered as one who sowed the seeds for this greatest miracle of all. Possibly more than any other man in church history, he promoted that which alone can bring it to pass, seeking the fulness of the Holy Spirit in our midst." I have news for Joyner and Seymour (although, since Seymour is now dead he will know this to be true), the "greatest miracle" of all is the salvation of a lost soul, not some kind of ecumenical "unity between races and creeds". Lu 15:10 "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." Angels rejoice over repentant sinners. The Bible does not say they rejoice over "unity between races and creeds" or false signs and wonder.. (Rick Joyner, "Azusa Street - The Fire That Could Not Die", The Morning Star Journal, Volume 7, Number 1, with comment by Sandy S_______, 1997)

"We must be vigilant and able to quickly recognize the enemy, but not be too quick to call someone the enemy until we are sure of what we see. A friend of mine who was a close associate of Jack Coe, one of the greatest of the healing evangelists, told me how he died quickly and unexpectedly at the age of just 39 after publicly referring to Kathryn Kuhlman as a witch. Years later, Kuhlman died quickly and unexpectedly after publicly calling Bob Mumford a false teacher. Were these the judgments of God? I believe both of these died because of the mercy of the Lord, to keep them from crossing the line to becoming a stumbling block, something the Lord Himself warned should be the last thing we ever want to become." This is used as an illustration by Joyner of true prophets calling someone else a false prophet and dying. First of all "too quick to judge"? It apparently took these people most of their lives to make these judgments. Secondly, from the list he mentioned, this is a classic example of false prophets calling each other false prophets and God taking them out.

Just read a little about the lives of Jack Coe and Kathryn Kuhlman and their heretical practices and statements, if you are in doubt. Joyner is also wrong about judging. We are called to judge the words of Christians, as good "Bereans". Paul called people to judge his words. 1Co 10:15 "I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say." We are also called to test the spirits for the express purpose of finding out who the false prophets are. 1 Jo 4:1 "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." If people are found to be false prophets and false teachers, we are to have nothing further to do with them as Christians. Jeremiah 23:16 "This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD." (Rick Joyner, "False Prophets and False Prophecy", The Morning Star Journal, Volume 6, Number 4, with comment by Sandy S_______, 1997, emphasis mine)


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CASEY TREAT

Who is he, and why is he drawing the masses to himself?

Casey Treat is another Charismatic who leads the saints away from the biblical truth to doctrines of devils.  Here is a presentation from his friends and our friends on the man.

 

Casey Treat -- Blurb by one of Treat's groupies

In January 1980, Pastor Casey Treat and his wife, Wendy, started Christian Faith Center in Seattle, Washington with a group of 30 people. Others quickly responded to the straightforward message that God's Word works. Today, Christian Faith Center is one of the largest churches in the Pacific Northwest, with more than 6,000 people attending weekly services.

Casey Treat is a pastor, author, and motivational speaker, as well as the founder and president of Dominion College. He holds Success Through Excellence seminars designed for business people. He also hosts his own daily television program. Traveling extensively each year, Pastor Treat speaks at large conventions and churches. His books and audio/ video cassettes are distributed worldwide.

 

Dave Hunt on Treat (Disclaimer some of Hunt's teachings)

Dave Hunt, in his book Seduction of Christianity, documents Casey Treat, pastor of Seattle's Christian Faith Center, as saying in his tape series Believing in Yourself that we're exact duplicates of God. "I'm an exact duplicate of God! When God looks in the mirror He sees me! When I look in the mirror, I see God! Oh, hallelujah! You know, sometimes people say to me, when they're mad and want to put me down. You just think you're a little god. Thank you! Hallelujah! You got that right! Who'd you think you are, Jesus? Yep!...Are you listening to me? Are you kids running around here acting like gods? Why not? God told me to! Since I'm an exact duplicate of God, I'm going to act like God!"

One of WOF's proof texts for them being little gods is Psalms 82:6. If one looks carefully, it is apparent that God is mocking the judges (gods) who had perverted justice. He (God) says, "I say ye are gods, nevertheless, you will die as mere men" (vss. 6 & 7). This is the same proof text the Mormons use to say one can become a god.

It is also a contradiction that if one is a god that one should die as a man. God is mocking and in a real sense condemning those that would arrogantly try to lift themselves to such status.

As is seen with Casey Treat, another problem with WOF teachers is their misunderstanding of the meaning of man being made in the image of God. To use Treat's own illustration of looking in the mirror, when one does look, what one sees is one's own reflection. The image is not reality. The image is only a reflection of one's reality. One reflects God's image (some of His qualities) but one is not God.

Granted that man is the apex of God's creation and as such is completely different from the rest of creation, but being God's image does not mean that one is a little god. Humans are not divine by nature. God is divine. "Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods." (Galatians 4:8, also see Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Gen. 1:26, 28, 3:4-5; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8).

Excerpt from The Watchman Expositor

 

Christian Research Institute.

Ye Are Gods? Orthodox and Heretical Views on the Deification of Man (an article from the Christian Research Journal, Winter/Spring 1987, page 18) by Robert M. Bowman, Jr. The Editor-in-Chief of the Christian Research Journal is Elliot Miller.

We quote from the above article:

Perhaps the most difficult doctrine of deification to categorize into one of the seven basic world views is that of the "positive confession" or "faith" teachers, including Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Frederick K.C. Price, Charles Capps, Casey Treat, and many others. In brief, the "faith" teaching maintains that God created man in "God's class," as "little gods," with the potential to exercise the "God kind of faith" in calling things into existence and living in prosperity and success as sovereign beings. We lost this opportunity by rebelling against God and receiving Satan's nature.

To correct this situation, Christ became a man, died spiritually (receiving Satan's nature), went to Hell, was "born again," rose from the dead with God's nature, and then sent the Holy Spirit so that the Incarnation could be duplicated in believers, thus fulfilling their calling to be little gods. Since we are called to experience this kind of life now, we should experience success in everything we do, including health and financial prosperity.

Some aspects of this teaching have been documented and compared with Scripture in articles published in previous issues of this journal.[12] Regarding the claim that men are "little gods," there is no question (as shall be demonstrated shortly) that the language used is unbiblical, but are the ideas being conveyed contrary to Scripture as well? Specifically, is the world view of the "faith" teaching monotheistic or polytheistic? A simple answer to this question is somewhat elusive.

The positive confession teachers have made statements that seem polytheistic, and yet often in the same paragraph contradict themselves by asserting the truth of monotheism.[13] At least two positive confession teachers, Frederick K.C. Price and Casey Treat, have admitted that men are not literally gods and have promised not to use this terminology again.[14] In many cases, the dominant world view appears to be monotheism, with their teachings tending at times toward a polytheistic world view. It seems best, then, to regard the "faith" teaching as neither soundly monotheistic nor fully polytheistic, but instead as a confused mixture of both world views. This means that the "faith" teaching of deification cannot be regarded as orthodox.

Their concept of deification teaches that man has a "sovereign will" comparable to God's, and that man can therefore exercise the "God kind of faith" and command things to be whatever he chooses.

Later in the article...

Casey Treat's claim that man is an "exact duplicate" of God is based on his understanding of the meaning of "image" in Genesis 1:26-27.[19] The Mormon apologetic for their doctrine that God is an exalted Man and that men can also become Gods typically appeals to the image of God in man, and to the parallel passage in Genesis 5:1-3 where Adam is said to have begotten Seth "in his own likeness, after his own image" (Genesis 5:1-3).[20] These claims raise two questions. Does the creation of man in the image of God imply that God Himself is an exalted man (as in Mormonism), or perhaps a spirit with the physical form or shape of a man (as in Armstrongism)? And does the image of God in man imply that men may become "gods"?

There are several reasons why such conclusions are incorrect.

First, there are the biblical statements which say that God is not a man (Num. 23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Hos.11:9).

Second, there is the biblical teaching on the attributes of God already mentioned, according to which God obviously cannot now or ever have been a man (except in the sense that the second person of the triune God became a man by taking upon Himself a second nature different from the nature of deity).

Third, in the context of Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-3 there is one very important difference between the relationship between God and Adam on the one hand and Adam and Seth on the other hand: Adam was _created_ or _made_ by God, while Seth was _begotten_ by Adam. To create or make something in the image or likeness of someone means to make something of a _different_ kind that nevertheless somehow "pictures" or represents that someone (cf. Luke 20:24-25). It is therefore a mistake to reason backwards from the creation of man in God's image to deduce the nature of God. Genesis 1:26-27 is telling us something about man, not about God. Besides the passages in Genesis (see also 9:6), the Old Testament says nothing else about the image of God.

The New Testament teaches that man is still in God's image (1 Cor. 11:7; James 3:9), but also says that, in some unique sense, Christ is the image of God (2 Cor. 4:4; Col. 1:15). Christians are by virtue of their union with Christ being conformed to the image of God and of Christ resulting finally (after this life) in glorification (2 Cor. 3:18; Rom. 8:29-30), which includes moral perfection (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) and an immortal physical body like Christ's (1 Cor. 15:49; cf. Phil. 3:21). Orthodox biblical theologians and scholars do have some differences of opinion as to how best to define and explain what these passages mean by the "image of God."[21]

However, these differences are relatively minor, and do not obscure the basic truth of the image, which is that man was created as a physical representation (_not_ a physical _reproduction_ or "exact duplicate") of God in the world. As such, he was meant to live forever, to know God personally, to reflect His moral character -- His love -- through human relationships, and to exercise dominion over the rest of the living creatures on the earth (Gen. 1:28-30; cf. Ps. 8:5-8).

From the biblical teaching on the image of God, then, there is nothing which would warrant the conclusion that men are or will ever be "gods," even "little gods," as the "faith" teachers often put it.

 

From the Cross + Word from the UK

A similar kind of thinking can be found within the Faith Movement wherein Kenneth Copeland, Frederick Price, Casey Treat and many others speak of the Christian as "a little god" who, by means of "revelation knowledge", can learn to control life's circumstances to one's advantage. This is pure metaphysics, and ironically a far cry from the Biblical concept of faith as, for an example, trust in a God who sometimes leads us into circumstances we would not ordinarily want, and then delivers us in what time and way seems good to Him.

 

Biblical Discernment Ministries

Charismatic Bible Ministries (CBM) was founded in 1986 by hyper-charismatic Oral Roberts. Jack Hayford was one of the original officers and trustees of CBM. (Others included such hyper-charismatics as Richard Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, David Yonggi Cho, Charles Capps, Morris Cerullo, Paul Crouch, Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Charles and Frances Hunter, Robert Tilton, Casey Treat, John Osteen, Earl Paulk, Fred K.C. Price, Tommy Reid, Stephen Strang, and Lester Sumrall.) CBM conducts leadership conferences for its charismatic coalition, many of whom espouse dominion theology tenets. CBM's slogan is "Love and Unity through Signs and Wonders." When people look to signs and wonders to produce love and unity, they will find themselves united with everything that appears miraculous regardless of the source (Vengeance is Ours , pp. 125-127


Editor: Blessed Quietness Journal--  

By now you can see that Treat is a full blown heretic.  He has believed the Serpent who said, "Ye shall be like God." Treat and all who follow him will go to hell for their heresy.  This man is deceiving many lambs and making fools of weak saints.

 

VIDEO:


PART TWO


MANIVEST SONS OF GOD FOUNDATION OF RICK JOYNER


MORE: http://rejoiceforevermore.wordpress.com/category/cults/page/3/


JOYNER AND SID ROTH MAKE BOOK ON 2012

Do you get the impression that Rick Joyner knows more than Jesus about the future?
What damned folly!

The Bible DOES have something to say about new revelations and prophecies:
Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So, Rich Joyner, no matter how close his alleged revelations seem to coincide with End Time Prophecy and present day events, will have all the judgment and curses of the book of The Revelation added to him.
This is not because of his predictions, which happen to be pretty close to the flow of events. It will be because he claimed to get all this by advanced revelation. Anyone wishing to warn Bible believers of TRENDS and historic comparisons with our own day may well make a positive contribution if Jesus Christ is lifted up and the Gospel is the object of repentance.
Now, will you believe the added "revelation" rubbish and join Joyner in his eternal destiny?
By the way, diligent Bible believers will have seen several heretical notions in Joyner's revelation, but I do not want to distract you from the core heresy-- NEW REVELATION ADDED TO THE BIBLE.

 

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