Searching for the Truth in the King James Bible;
Finding it, and passing it on to you.




EDITOR:
Steve Van Nattan

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THERE IS NOT ONE EXAMPLE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT OF ANY CHURCH BEING REBUKED BECAUSE THEY DID NOT GIVE ENOUGH.

TITHING


A Discussion of a Heresy Taught for Gain

Proverbs 30:15 The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, give, give........

INTRODUCTION

There is NO teaching on tithing in the Apostolic writings of the New Testament.

We at this site HATE with a passion the sight of a slow bellied preacher shaking down the sheep, teaching on giving virtually every Sunday, and implying that real born again people give until they are in poverty.

The object of this giving is the pastor's belly and greed for material possessions. This is because these natural brute beasts are too lazy to mend tents as Paul did. They are taught in Bible college (like Crown College) that working on the side is wicked for a pastor.

The other object of the scream, "give" is the alleged missions program. You will find that the more a local church gives to mission, the more lazy creeps come around and pick up that cash and live a high life in a far away country. I was a missionary and saw the slobs who diddled their lives away while living on the "tithes" of the saints in the home land. The monster missions program is very prone to have free loading dead beats supported by it because the preacher is too busy running the show to check up on the missionaries.

Slow bellied preachers don't collect offerings to win souls in Africa. They are trying to get recognition in the pastor's fellowship and build a great resume. They do the same with Sunday School. They destroy the peace of the assembly, and work the faithful too hard, so that they can have "the biggest fastest growing Sunday School" in Georgia, or where ever.

So unbiblical tithing is a vicious tool which Satan uses, in the weak minds of pastors, to abuse the saints.

 

PART ONE: STEVE VAN NATTAN ON TITHING

"ACCORDING TO":
By Steve Van Nattan

If tithing is not taught in the New Testament, AND IT IS NOT, what is the standard the saint can use to determine how much to give?

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

They were to give According To the blessing.
They were to give one week at a time.
They were to give the amount they alone determined.
They were to determine that amount in terms of prosperity, not "until it hurts."

If a saint was eager and faithful in this standard, then God could prosper him more and more, and God would be able to use this faithful saint to help the needs of the saints in the assemblies. God would be the one to make the decision who prospered. Paul made NO attempt to figure that out. The church leader or pastor who meddles in a saints giving, spending, car choices, leisure choices, is a man with a devil from Satan.

A friend of mine got a letter from a slow bellied Cretian preacher rebuking him for buying a new pick up truck. That preacher is demon possessed, for only a devil would write that letter. If God wanted my friend to have a new truck, then that preacher was de facto rebuking God for blessing his saint. These gigolos need to be driven out of their churches and sent packing. Vote them out in a hurry, and run them off.

Who gives the harvest derived from the saint's giving? Answer: God! When did you ever see a preacher who begs for money turn around and hand double money back to a men who gave sacrificially? There is NO such preacher on earth. So, obviously, God is the reward giver. Read how it works.

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The saints gave According As they purposed, NOT according as the preacher thrashed them, budgeted, begged, and demanded "tithes and offerings."

The pattern today of the leader standing before the people and leaning on them in giving sermons, and alleged challenges, is evil. It leaves no room for the saints to mature in giving, and it leaves no room for the believer to be lead of the Holy Ghost to see for himself a need of another saint, and meet it.

This biblical way of giving does not call for a collection plate as the only target for throwing your money at. It can be a matter as simple as seeing another saint in need and meeting the need, possibly only one time. Also, privately purposing allows the saint to keep his giving secret. But, "systematic giving" makes a show of giving, as does "faith promise" giving. Seeking a tax receipt makes the saint's giving a matter of public record. Thus, there is NO reward in heaven later, for the record is here in this life.

Look how Christ rewards the saint:

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Each saint is rewarded According As he has worked. If he worked for a tax receipt, or for the thanks of the preacher, or for the rush of being praised by the receiver of the gift, that saint will see his giving go up in smoke at the judgment of his works in the Glory.

I suggest you ignore the fat faced jackboot preacher who jerks your chain to give according to the defined approved needs. Give cash, food, cars, or what ever is needed, and give to the individual under the condition that they keep their ever loving flapper tight closed.

When the collection plate passes by, make sure the preacher can eat and pay his bills. But, if a load of silly circus toys are being financed by the collection plate, hand your gift to the preacher to him in an envelope. And, if he makes a lot of fuss over it, flattering you, tell him you will not be giving to him again for six months at least. Maybe the next time he will receive with joy and let God reward you.

How did they disburse the giving of the saints?

Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

The need of the saints was the only use of the giving. The giving also was not offered until this urgent need was perceived. They had NO budget.

Conclusion:

The gifts were given According To the blessing God added to the giver.

The gifts were disbursed According To the need of saints in trouble.

There is NO other standard in the New Testament. Anything adding complexity to this simple way of life in Christ's Church is damnation and heresy.


STORY TO SHOW HOW IT WORKS AMONG FUNDAMENTALISTS:
By Steve Van Nattan

When I pastored a church in central Michigan, there was a church nearby where the pastor practiced these same tactics of fleecing the sheep down to the skin. The author mentions the effect on the family. His observations in South Africa are precisely the same in the USA and other nations.

One family in this church was home schooling. They were also very poor, and the wife was staying home while the husband who biblically tried to support his family without his wife working. The pastor hit this man for cash and offerings and tithes as hard as possible.

The pastor taught these heresies about solving life's problems by giving. It was a Baptist version of the name-it-and-claim-it Charismatic notion on giving-- what some heretics call "seed faith." The poor man gave until he was flat broke, could not pay his bills, and could not buy home schooling curriculum.

Did the preacher take anything from the treasury to help the man, as the Levites would have done back under the legitimate days of tithing? No. The slob asked the church to pray for the man that he would find the money. The jerk preacher did not even encourage anyone in the assembly to help the people. Why? Because the preacher wanted the cash for himself.

Indeed, I have heard it said that taking cash from the church treasury to help the saints survive is "robbing God." Wrong, it is robbing the Reverend Dr. Fat Boy of his ecclesiastical belly busting hamburgers and Little Debbie cakes. It is "Corban"-- dedicated to McDonald's.

I must say, the size of the average preacher's belly screams "HERESY" at the tithing practices and sadomasochistic giving in Fundamental churches.

 

 

PART TWO: IS FAITH PROMISE GIVING BIBLICAL?

Editor: Steve Van Nattan

Answer to the above question-- NO!

We are not to gamble on God's blessing in the future. We are told to give according to the blessing of the immediate past. I could write a lot on this, but the emotion of the moment, the budget for missions which seems so glorifying to God, and the fact that it works, do not justify the heresy.

Here is the way to give. I know what you sheep sheerers will say-- This was a special offering for just one event. Well, the principles here are the ONLY nuts and bolts method given in the New Testament for giving by the Apostle Paul:

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Give for the need.

Give on the first day of the week.

Give according to the blessing of the past week.

PRAY FOR US SINNERS, NOW....

I think someone should write an article on public prayer also, for Jesus talked about the show time prayer right after the show off giving. I hear some of these Fundamentalist bishops braying like jack asses in church gatherings, and I know in my soul that they are just showing off. They are the same jerkois de jour who make a big show of the giving time.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

 


So, promising to give, in the future, what I think I can give, is not taught here. Faith Promise giving is gambling on the future and coercing God into the liability for my failure to keep the vow. This is wicked, for it lays the foundation for blaming God because I played the fool

Also, Faith Promise giving is done before men-- it is a show:

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Faith Promise Giving is not giving, it is gambling, and the preachers who promote it are not showing any faith in the Lord and his saints. They are coercing the saints by shame or some misplaced hubris, to make arrangements for tomorrow.

Matthew 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

There is a lot of boasting in a Faith Promise session. The preacher tells the people how great they are for giving $________ last year, and he then says that it is the will of God to have a bigger missions budget for next year. He could not prove what is the will of God in the pocket books of those saints in front of him if his life depended on it. It is just giving hype-- bluster, bombast, and bull.

James warns us against planning on what we will do with our "gain." I also hear some preachers say that they are careful to subject the Faith Promise to the rhetoric of trusting God, so that, if someone fails in their promise they are able to believe it was God's will for them to fail in keeping the vow. BAH! You fool. So, you too are trying to put God on the spot to make the thing work. You are teaching the saint that the Bible demands their faith in a promissory note on the future, while God, in reality, may not like them to live by faith that far in advance. YOU go live by faith, you wimp preacher. YOU trust God to provide week by week. Or, are you not able to believe 1 Corinthians 16 works? YOU are the one lacking faith, and you should repent or get out of the ministry and go sell insurance.

So, no matter how noble the cause, Faith Promise giving is a violation of the New Testament. It is about time we trust the Holy Ghost to bless the saints between Sundays enough to meet the needs of the local church treasury. By the way, NO missionary need is so urgent that we have to violate the Word of God to meet the need. Read that again and again until you either barf or believe.

I must repent a bit-- There is Faith Promise giving found in the Bible. Here it is:

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, (Faith Promise) by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
(missions, building fund, preacher's belly) he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

So, you take that which is God's, which is your kid's food and home school curriculum, which is your needy brother's, which is your food fund, which is what you should give to the poor saint sitting in the pew in front of you, and you give it to the preacher and church leaders to send far away or to fatten the slow bellied preacher.

Corban! There is your Faith Promise. "I have pledged it during the missions conference, I cannot help you brother, mother, father, kid, saint.... Go and be filled off of welfare from Caesar."

Preacher, you love to run to the Old Testament looking for Tithe Law. Well, according to the above text you should have, once a year, a giving pledge Sunday for the saints to sign a card as to how much they will give to their father and mother. Law is law buster, and Jesus makes it very clear that those law keepers who neglect their parents are wicked.

By now, I have the average preacher spitting nails. That is great-- these slow bellies need to get out of the Lord's sheep fold and sell insurance.

WEB PUBLISHERS

Should you link to this page?

 

The following text came up during our family Bible reading, and it is very powerful in regard to giving:

2 Corinthians 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Thus, the exposition of this text shows:

1. Verse 1-6 show us that the giving of Macedonia was in spite of their poverty, was eager, was NOT anticipated by Paul, was not asked for or even hinted at by Paul, was not preached on by Paul every fourth Sunday morning, and was handed over to Titus by Paul, to oversee in Corinth. The modern jackboot preacher would never hand over his cut in the offering plate to another pastor if he could figure out a way to keep it. If Paul had been using the plan of modern missions, he would have sent Titus to Corinth only if he promised to put Paul on the missions support budget, right?

2. Verse 7 shows us that mature giving comes out of a fully mature Christian life. Pastors today will not teach the Word, they will not study, and they will not stop preaching giving every other Sunday. So, their people have to be cajoled and cussed into giving. Spiritual babies never learn to give, they learn to sit in the pew and look dumb as snot. They also give ONLY when the preacher is watching. When is the last time YOU gave $100 to a pastor across town who was struggling-- I mean, you handed it to him, not put it in your pastor's offering plate with a designation to the other pastor. What if your pastor does not appreciate that starving pastor across town? Would you still give if the Holy Ghost moved you? Who rules your heart, your pastor, or Jesus Christ?

3. Verse 8 shows that Paul did NOT imply or even hint that tithing was the standard. Giving in an Apostolic New Testament local church is based on love, NOT obligation. This is violently opposed to the pattern of obligation and tithe law based message in most churches today. Others were used as the example only in that the Macedonians were the example of giving out of love. This is why many saints never mature in giving-- they don't love the ones they are giving to. This in turn is due to the fact that ALL giving has to be deposited into the round offering plate passed on Sunday morning. There is NO concept of teaching saints to give directly to the person in need, which may be another saint rather than the slow bellied pastor. The saints in the Greek churches gave a gift to the saints in Jerusalem, and Paul did not get a farthing of a cut for his own belly. Check it out.

4. Verse 9 shows us that the ministry of a saint, if it is in the model of Jesus Christ, is NOT money based. Jesus lived in total poverty and was dependent on those who would feed him and lodge him. He did not talk about what he needed, he did not hold the bag himself, he did not own anything, he did not build anything, and he did not carry a balance. Peter had to go fishing to find enough to pay Jesus' tax. If the average jackboot preacher would live this way, and fully give of himself rather than build his own finances up, the saints would take very good care of him. And, if they didn't, like Jesus, you would never hear about it.

5. Verse 10-11 show that LAST YEAR's giving is the standard for this year's giving. "Faith Promise" giving tells us to forget last year, ignore the cold hard facts of our jobs, the economy, and how last year's giving affected our lives, AND promise to give an amount you have no idea if you can raise. This is absolutely in violence against what Paul is teaching here. The willing spirit and joy of giving last year is the model for this year. That is all! The amount is never discussed, and percentages are not discussed. This is not Moses' law.

6. Verse 12 means that you look at what you have in the spirit of love of Jesus Christ and his Church. Who you give it to is up to you, not the man made budget which is in arrears. "It is accepted" means that the leaders of the local church and the pastor better shut their ever flapping lower jaw and rejoice if the saints love the Lord, the Church, and give in that spirit. If the leaders are smart, they will not make a budget until AFTER the giving is done. They will NOT ask for "Faith Promises." They will just shut up and see what the Spirit does as the saints give. If the giving seems to fall short, then the leaders will shorten their grand schemes and stick to what can be done with what came forth out of this Apostolic model of giving.

7. Verse 13-15: What is this equality? It simply means that every saint gives out of his poverty or out of his wealth. It is up to each saint to figure out what that means for him. The mongrel tradition in many Bible believing churches is to talk about "tithe" and certain percentages. Pastors exalt those who give the most, when some of them gave only pennies on the dollar of what they are really worth. Stupid pastors, dumb hirelings. Jesus exalted the woman who cast two mites into the temple treasury, while the big giver was judged harshly. Equality means the pastor better take a long look as his "increase." Many of these sheep sheerers don't even give two mites. Their offering envelope is not based on love giving. It is Oral Roberts' "seed faith" heresy. They only give so the saints will see them as an example. They rarely lift their wallet out of their hip pocket to pay for the lunch of a widow. They instead are quick to make friends of the high income people in the local church so that they can lift a free lunch off of them. I KNOW this is true in most Fundamental pastors, for that is what I have seen personally. Most Fundamental missionaries live this way also. Missionaries are among the worst tithers you ever met.

Let's talk about missions. Missions giving should simply be an extension of the pattern above. But, too often missions giving is a bragging point. Pastors and local church people brag around town to other saints about how much they give to missions. Does anyone brag about the food they took around to someone who fell into poverty when they lost their job? No! Why? First, most of these jackboot preachers are never caught taking food to anyone. Second, if they ever do take food to someone, it is paid for with a church check. What ever happened with a saint using some of his intended giving to help another saint and tell no one about it? I will tell you why this is rare. It is because the pastor demands an accounting of all giving. Also, the giver wants a tax receipt to use on his Schedule C as a deduction.

Also, did you ever hear of a missionary giving to the local church? I am not talking about a token ten spot he drops in the plate just before he preaches on giving in your church. I am talking about a missionary seeing a widow in need and quietly meeting her need without anyone noticing. I am talking about a missionary seeing a fellow missionary so poorly supported that his kids don't eat right. The B___________s were in Mexico doing translation of the Spanish Bible into a TR based new translation. They were doing door to door soul winning. They were also eating beans and tortillas at almost every meal. They were dirt poor. Their co-worker across town was rolling in cash from their abundant support. Did they help the B___________s? No. They mocked them. Same mission and same doctrines. The B___________s finally had to leave Mexico and return to the USA, and the husband had to get a job. The translation languishes to this day. I have seen this myself as a missionary in Africa. Missionaries are the most heartless toward one another in this fault.

So, "Faith Promise" giving is a creation of the lusting beggars who parade before the saints with all their budgets and debts. They convince the saints that God can be coerced into coughing up the cash if they make the rash promise to give. Paul taught otherwise, and it is high time godly men confront these hirelings and run them off if they will not start preaching Jesus Christ instead of giving.

May I suggest a cleansing process start with you?

Lay aside some cash, whatever you feel you can give. Keep it in the form of cash, not a check. Tell the whole family to watch for a saint in trouble. Pray for guidance. DO NOT TELL YOUR PASTOR OR OTHER CHRISTIANS (Matt. 6:1).

Once you find this person, ask the Lord to help you give in love and sincerely. Do not give the cash if you can buy the things needed. Many saints in financial trouble don't have the gas money to drive around hunting bargains like you do. Buy things you know they like, even if this is not what you like. Buy a couple treats for their kids. Let your kids help. There is this ugly notion created by welfare socialism that beggars don't deserve to have any fun. WICKED! Buy the folks some ice cream and candy. I know it is bad for them according to your health notions. Buy it anyway.

How about the poor pastor over in the next county who is flat broke and trying to keep a store front church open-- pennies in the offering and driving a school bus for income? You know he never takes his wife out to dinner. Call, and ask him where is a good restaurant in his area because you want to take your wife to dinner while you are over there. He will tell you, and you next tell him he and his wife are coming along. Tell him that this is an act of giving for your family this month. Tell him he should accept your gesture in love.

What about the old widow two doors down? She is not saved, right? So what? Did Jesus die only for those who would be saved? Only you Dutch Reformed dead beats would say, "Yes" to that one. Take her a food basket. Be sure servings are small, and try to find out about diabetes and other diet limitations. A fruit basket is always in order-- make it up yourself. Fruit is often left out of the diet of the poor because it is cheaper to load up on carbohydrates.

My home church showed mercy to a family of poor and troubled people. A number of things were done to help them survive. The father was a looser of sorts, though he had some zeal to work. The family started coming to church, and the boys got saved. The father didn't get right until his sons were entering college. The boys all paid their own way by hard work. Mom had problems until she died which she never got victory over. I graduated from college with their oldest son. Today, he is all over the USA setting up computer networking by radio. He and his wife are both PhDs. Was it worth it to show mercy to that family of losers long ago? Rewards don't come in next Tuesday, it may never show up in your resume, but God is working when the saints give. And, the offering plate is not the only way God wants you to give.

To you pastors and missionaries: If you are not doing these things OUTSIDE OF THE OFFERING PLATE, you are a dead beat. You do NOT look like the Jesus Christ you profess to live for. You ought to get out of town. Now, if you are hearing the Holy Ghost talking to you about now, great! Set aside some cash, and YOU do just what I suggested above. God will refresh you zeal and love for Christ and his people.

 

PART THREE: BIBLE STUDY INTO THE TITHE ISSUE

By Dave Combs

CLICK HERE to read an in depth Bible study on the topic
 

 

PART FOUR: The Mongrel Tax Deduction

By Steve Van Nattan

Issuing a tax deduction so that the giver can reduce his tax payment to Caesar does two things:

1. It causes the saints to give for the advantage they get out of it.

2. It makes Caesar a member of the church board, for Caesar is helping finance the Lord's Church.

Jesus settled this for the Church Age, but most of you will refuse to obey him:

Mark 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

A tax deduction is rendering what is Caesar's to God so that we can get a break in tax from Caesar. Cheap religion, but it sure helps bring in the "tithes and offerings" which the saints might not have given so eagerly. Thus, we admit that we are not dedicated enough to give to God out of Christian maturity and need the nurse maid of the state to motivate us to give.

BABIES!

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A READER CHECKS IN

My Dear Brother Van,

Just found your sight by accident, yesterday. Being an avid reader, found tithing to be of great interest. As a chaplain for the truck stop ministry, I had wondered if anyone else in the ministry saw it (tithing) as unscriptual. I have used the same verses of scripture plus an additional analogy that so many truckers have loved and appreciated.

Here is something you might add to your ammo against tithing:

Mal.3:6-10 is always ingrained in people for the purpose of tithing.

Problems are as follows: vs 6; God calls them Oh sons of Jacob, not Israel. (they wrestle with God not "ones who prevail with God" which is the definition of Israel. (The whole book of Mal. is about Israel asking the question 'How have we...')

vs 10: God says "test Me now", not test Me in the future nor each week but NOW. (some reason that it was okay for Israel it should be okay for us. Wrong! God called them sons of Jacob.)

vs 11: hasn't come to pass nor has- vs 12: where all nations will call them blessed. Then ask the question: Would anyone dispute Jesus?

Matt.4:7, Jesus tells Satan " You shall not put the Lord your God to the Test.".

Nothing else needs to be added. Over the many years (I too had pastored a church) I have asked many in the ministry how they get around Matt.4:7? They usually tell me that they can't teach that (Matt.4:7) because then no body would tithe.

I'll ask them where is your faith? It is God's ministry not ours, we are only vessels.

As far as 'word of faith', keep hammering them. I just visited a woman in the hospital (20 year member of a name-it-claim-it church) that her church of supposed Christian brethern refused to visit her in the hospital. Why? She either has hidden sin or a lack of faith.

My analogy is that these people are gutless and trully void of the love of Christ, Period!

Stay in His Grace, Don

______________________________________________

LETTER FROM A READER:

I have a dear friend who, in spite of the objections of her husband, would never DREAM of missing a tithe payment to her dumb church, but yet is late to the point of default on all her bills, has her power turned off routinely, is being sued by several creditors, and teeters on the brink of bankruptcy on a regular basis. When I point out to her that being woefully behind on your bills is no kind of Christian witness, she just gets angry and tells me she is going to pay her tithes no matter what ANYBODY says. (I've never really known many charismatic husbands who weren't henpecked, nor many charismatic wives who were anywhere near in scriptural submission to anybody or anything!)

Jay Crosby

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LETTER FROM A READER--
CREEPY GIVING TECHNIQUE

Hey Steve,

I have an observation about something that maybe you have seen yourself or maybe someone else has brought up before. Back in the early 1990s I attended an Independent Fundamental Baptist camp meeting where the folks running it were like slick salespeople and used car salesmen. They had some singing and then this slick dressed evangelist got up and said something to the effect that no preaching was going to occur and no one was leaving the room until God�s money was raised for the camp meeting.

It was like an auction where people would hold up a paddle with a dollar figure pledge and another man was recording it. I do not remember the target goal but it was something like $3,000 just for that night. People were donating cars and all kinds of things. It was really a strange thing and I have never seen it before or since that occasion. My observation is two fold, the filthy lucre aspect and the manipulation and emotional appeal.

I have seen some pretty shady deals with this Faith Promise Missions stuff and using emotional appeal to trick and confuse folks into giving or feeling guilty. It seems like anytime the jack boots start manipulating emotion that something wrong is about to take place like fleecing the brethren or getting them to build the jack boot�s empires in some fashion or manner.

I have seen the extreme dangers of man worship in the Jack Hyles issue where he had his Bible college students wearing buttons that said something like, �I am 100% for Jack�. What a sad travesty when the sheep get confused and get out of their Books and onto some Baptist pope kick. I guess in my mind anytime I see emotionalism, deception, manipulation, man following, dictatorial attitudes, showmanship, guilt tripping and any number of control methods from pastors that it really reveals the falsehood of the wolves, dogs and perpetrators.

Religion outside of what God describes as religion is a terrible thing for sure and leads lots of well intentioned and sincere folks into a ditch of destruction. Thank you again for your encouraging and very informative website.

Because HE Lives,

Sam

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HOCUS POKUS GIVING-- LETTER FROM A READER

I hope it is ok for a woman to write and ask a question that her and her husband have wondered about. That would be me and my husband. Let me just state that there have been times that I have not attended church with my children because of not having any money to give. ( I have been reading your pages on tithing and faith promise)

We were attending a church and were really excited about how it was going but a few months into it we started noticing alot of attention was focused on money. There was a board with lights on it and amounts. Everytime we reached an amount for missions then we screwed in the bulb and of course things were said about it if the bulb didn't come on when it should have.

Editor: This implies that God is being held hostage by our lack of giving. This is a form of slavery-- slavery to a preacher and our own fear of failure. This is blasphemous.

They collect money to pay for the brick on the building because the children in the church wanted to help so they go around to the people there and hold out their hands for loose change.

Editor: Suffer the little children.... Use them to shake down the faithful, then later, the little children will believe that life is a hand out. Bah!

It started to get to where we resented attending church. But the main thing we have been curious about is we hear people say that as long as they were giving to the church the 10 percent then they never faced money problems but when they quit giving then things became bad. We have seen people who work with my husband and the wife doesn't work, buy things that we do not have money to buy and we wondered if it is because they tithe. We are not necessarily wanting more. We are happy that our finances now allow us to pay our bills on time and some even before we get the bill. We use to be late all the time so we are thankful for being able to do this now but I see how hard my husband works and that he's been working since he was 8 years old and helping out his family at that time too! ( alcoholic father ) There are things I would love for him to be able to do or buy and he wonders if we aren't able to because we don't tithe. We do look at the fact that there are plenty of people in the Morman church that are proserous, and we know that is not God blessing them, but do you have anything else to help us understand this?

Editor: Dear reader, if you do not know how this feels, thank God. There are people in this world who live under terror of devils attacking them, as in Africa, for not doing just the right series of works. There are very civilized people who believe God is an ogre in the sky who demands his cut before he will hand back a blessing. The most evil thing about this is to see these people measuring their blessings by other Christians. In fact, their poverty may well be more precious to our Father in heaven. Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. Being poor is not a curse, it is a blessing. Then there is the Apostle Paul-- Philippians 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. Maybe abundance will come soon, but for now, rest, thank God for enough.

I told him what I read on your site but he sees coworkers whom he feels are saved and " being blessed". Again, not complaining about what we have but we are wondering if we are not budgeting correctly. We need a newer car and it will be years before that happens where as others are doing it no problem. I told him that maybe they have alot of debt which we have only a little.

Editor: RIGHT! Half of being well off is being out of dept. Being in debt is to be enslaved.

What a great feeling. ( We absolutely want it to stay that way) We also want to give money as God wants us too. Is giving to needy people doing that?

Editor: Lord have mercy! Do you see the result of teaching tithing at the church house. Someone in the neighborhood of these people may be in poverty and struggling, and these folks cannot give them a cent. This is not because they are not sensitive, you can tell they are from the letter-- it is because they are enslaved to a top down system where a man, not Jesus Christ, rules in their heart. What is needed here is anonymous giving. They need to start giving cash only at the church house, and they need to ask the Lord to show them a needy Christian or neighbor whom they can touch for Christ. Their kids are not learning the joy of giving because all the cash goes into a round wooden plates on Sunday, not into hungry hands.

We don't have a problem giving money but also feel it's better for the poor than for the brick. Thank you for your time and sorry this has been such long e-mail. ( More than you know since my wrist is broke)

Editor: One more thought-- When you make giving into a brick, that is, when cash giving is given a practical application, that brick tells the giver that the Church of Jesus Christ is real estate. There are many subtle heresies about giving today, as taught by these hireling Balaams called preachers.

Thank you and God Bless you for your site.

George and D.

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MODEST PROPOSAL:

May I suggest something for some preacher to do. This will take nerve, faith, and some grace to receive back some nasty stuff. One of you preachers take a wad of about twenty ten dollar bills to a big bar in town. Walk in, start handing out the ten dollar bills, and in a big voice tell them something like this;

"I know we preachers have a bad reputation of begging for money. I cannot make the other preachers in town do the right thing, but I just wanted to do something tonight to convince you I don't need your money. I don't need your money so bad that I am proving it right now. If you think you might like to know what other crazy sort of things I might do, come see us this Sunday night at 7:00, and you will find out. I am sorry I didn't have enough to give every one of you something, but please be our guest Sunday evening. We are not the same old sort of church you are used to."

Be sure to tell them what church you are from, and walk out. Don't give them a tract-- just do it and walk off. If it does not work well the first time, do it again in another bar in the area. Take a deacon to witness that you did not compromise yourself in a bar.

Another variation would be to walk into a bar with a deacon, NOT looking preachy. Sit down, order coffee, and strike up a conversation. Try to get to someone sober, and work the conversation around to churches and preachers. Ask the man what he thinks of preachers. When one of the men tells you they all want money, STRIKE. Take $40 out of your pocket, and say, "That is what I wanted to hear. I cannot change everyone's mind about that, but I intend to change yours. Here is $40 for you to spend any way you like. Come see us some time at ____________________ Church."

Do these tricks as near to your church location as possible so the impact is in your neighborhood. Pick the bar that is manly, not topless, and not queer, or pick a supper club type. Perhaps you cannot see doing this in a place that sells alcohol. On the other hand, there have been a lot of street preachers who preached in bars. So, do this at the barber shop or where ever the sinners are likely to be accusing pastors of being money lovers.

Make sure the word gets out to the local newspaper and radio station. On Sunday night, have a buffet ready for all visitors, and DO NOT take an offering.

Terrifying, is it not?

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JAY CROSBY STRIKES AGAIN-- Some interesting observations

Hi, Steve!

I've been re-reading the TITHING article, and another thought popped into my head when I was going over your listing of "tricks" these preachers use to fleece the flock.

The one I remember Falwell being especially guilty of was his line, "We've taken a step of faith..." as he touted some proposed new building, TV station, whatever.

Now, what that TRANSLATES to is, "We've gone out with nobody's permission but our own, and obligated ourselves to the teeth, and we expect YOU idiots to pay for it!"

When I ask for a verse in the NT that teaches tithing, I get the same look when I ask them to show me a single verse where anyone is called "Reverend" so-and-so, or for that matter "Brother" so-and-so. (The only one I am aware of ever to be called "Brother" so-and-so by name in the Bible is the single reference to Saul [Acts 9:17], while he was yet unconverted.)

Uh-oh! Here I go! I'm old enough to where every story reminds me of another story!

Years ago I was watching JIMMY SWAGGART. (I must have been pretty desperate for entertainment!) Anyway, the entire half-hour program was him standing in front of this chart graph with his pointer, showing how various areas of giving had fallen off. You know the drill: "This is a work of God, but if we don't hear from you this week we'll be gone by month's end!"

Oh, Boo hoo HOO!

Anyway, as I said, the show was head-to-foot nothing but Swaggart grinding on the suckers to send in their money.

Then, as if to add insult to injury, at the end of the thing, Swaggart says, "Well, neighbor (and I ain't his neighbor; no way could I afford to live in the neighborhood he resides in!), I hope the progrum has blessed you tudday."

HOW?!

What a joke.

Then there was the time that other crybaby REX HUMBARD came on and announced tearfully (of course) that he wanted everyone just this one time to send him their tithe!

I fired off a letter asking him if he realized how many small fellowships across the land he would wipe out that month just so he could buy his no-talent old bag wife a new face lift?

Mercy!

Now, a tale I may have already related:

I'm known as a man who is somewhat hard to take. (I'm sure you can relate.) But years ago I heard an old preacher say something that has really stuck. He was explaining some verses from 1 Thess concerning the Blessed Hope of the church, and he stopped right in the middle of what he was doing, peered over his glasses and said, "You know, bless your heart, Beloved, I'm not much interested in your OPINION. In fact, I say TO PERDITION WITH YOUR OPINION--WHAT does the Word of GOD say?"

Amen.

The other thing that really jumped out and grabbed me when I was just a brand new believer was something I read in the 119th Pslam, verse 128:

Psalms 119:128 "Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way. "

Double Amen!!

Editor's comment: Since I posted this letter, brother Crosby has gone to be with the Lord. I guarantee you that he did not find an offering plate at the door of heaven.

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Parting shot:

You preachers who run back to the "beggarly elements" of Moses' law to enforce the tithing laws, may I suggest that you keep ALL the law?

Where is your feces paddle? That too is required by Moses' Old Testament law. That too, like tithing, is not in the New Testament. I can send you a first class feces paddle for the low low price of $45.95, and you can carry that paddle around with pride, knowing that you are a good old fashioned law keeper. You should also add a special Sunday, as you do to promote Faith Promise giving, to have a feces paddle revival. Get those people carrying that thing to work without shame. Hang one in the old Ford so that people will start to talk around town about your zeal for the Lord. How about hanging a feces paddle on one side of the church house and a shofar on the other? Best Hebrew Roots show in town!

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GIVING-- After Thoughts

Deuteronomy 24:20 When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

In recent years, back on the farm, this was called "second skimmings." This referred to people who skimmed the cream off the the milk twice and left it insipid because of their greed.

Some of your gatherings, in pay checks, or in olives, belong to the widow, the fatherless, and the stranger. How are you dealing with this principle of God's provision for the needy? Tithing at the church house is not a biblical imperative in the Church age. We are to give according to our blessings last week.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

There is NO other plan for giving in the Epistles. Tithing is cheap religion, for those who tithe in modern churches have the mongrel notion that all their giving is rolled up in what they dump into the offering plate. The widow in need down the street can go to hell. My preacher demands all my giving come into his control. What blasphemy of the Apostolic instruction. Ain't it a shame the Holy Ghost did not know how important your preacher's wallet is when he inspired the writing of the New Testament.

Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Luke 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

2 Corinthians 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
Verse 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

This principle of giving was NOT given by Paul so that your preacher could use it to force you to give to fill his big fat belly or build a new building. Paul encouraged the saints at Corinth to give for poor ordinary believers in another local church who were having serious troubles surviving. When is the last time your preacher took an offering for saints in trouble far away and gave all the offering to those saints? Never maybe?

So, don't allow that four flusher to rob you of the joy of helping saints in need. Stop filling that offering plate, and give directly into the hands of the saints in need. If your preacher has a big belly, he is NOT one of them.

Furthermore; give cash in the offering so the jack boot preacher will not know how much you gave. It is NOT his business. Indeed, if you want any reward from Christ for your giving, You are forbidden by him to let ANYONE know how much you gave.

Matthew 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Let me be brutally blunt with you vain and arrogant Baptists and Pentecostals-- When you get to heaven, you will get NO reward for anything you gave to the local church which was entered on a list, a record, or for which you got a tax receipt. If you don't give a damn if you ever hear Jesus Christ tell you what HE thought of your giving, then wave your cash in the air and bask in the glory the preacher, church treasurer, and the IRS deduction.


 

COMMENTARY FROM A RUSSIAN ORTHODOX SOURCE:

August- 2012

Lets get one thing straight theres no such thing as a tithing member in Orthodoxy no way, no how. The tithe was an aspect of the Old Law done away with by Our Lord Christ. It resurfaced amongst the Radical Reformation, and really took root in the so-called Second Great Awakening, which saw the genesis of some of the most feral of the Radical American Sects (Southern Baptists, Holiness movement, Mormons, Millerites, to name but a few). Thats to say, it isnt of the Church. In fact, its heretical.

Let me explain. Tithing sets up a two-tier level of membership in the Church. Firstly, there are full members, the tithers. Then, theres a second, lower, level of non-tithers. The Church doesnt teach that; it never did, it never shall. Our Lord Christ never taught the tithe, indeed, he attacked pettifogging legalism and juridical attitudes with all of his powers. The Church has NEVER taught the tithe as part of the Deposit of Faith, its unknown in Church history. The Church has ONE level of membership for all thats why the tithes heretical, and thats why its absolutely dangerous and corrosive to True Christian faith.

For us as individuals, tithing is even worse than on the corporate level. It sets up prelest of the most disgusting sort it gives that warm feeling of self-satisfaction thats the harbinger of the death of any genuine spirituality. Lets not be coy. The Church and its Mysteries are NOT for sale. Theres NO set amount for what you give of your worldly goods for Gods work on earth. NONE. NADA. ??????. Many moons ago, I must admit that I was deceived by the tithing heresy, too. It seemed so logical, so fair but I was lucky. A monastic took the time to explain the true situation, and Im grateful for that. When you look at it carefully, its one of the most horrid fabrications out there, on a level with imiaslavie (a heresy championed by Paffhausen and the Manton conventicle



LINKS:

Here is a great book on tithing, the Old Covenant and the New

See another Article at this Journal on Tithing

Good book on Tighing you can read on the Web

Twelve Lies about Tithing

Wesleyan Methodist Church hocus pokus with "Faith Promise" giving

 

VIDEOS:

HOW TO TAKE THE SAINTS' POCKET BOOK HOSTAGE:

 

ED YOUNG'S PROPRIETY GOSPEL TITHING DOCTRINE
The message is really, "Tithe, or go to Hell." Stop trying to civilize these heretics and devils.

 

HERE IS A BASTARD SON OF SATAN TEACHING LAW TO FLEECE THE SHEEP

 

HERE IS A LAMPOON ON TITHING NOTIONS

 

IS YOUR JESUS A SLOT MACHINE?

 

 

QUESTION:
Did I trash your theology of giving?

Ah, you poor suffering thing, you. Well, give the URL of this article to your pastor. After he sees it, he will tell you I am a heretic, and then you can go merrily on your way rejoicing in your legal system of buying God off. Ta da.

 

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TITHING By Dave Combs

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