The present in the light of the past, and filtered through prophetic passages from the King James Bible


EDITOR:
Steve Van Nattan

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Introduction by Steve Van Nattan, Editor:

When I was a kid in Oklahoma, Pentecostals loved to prophecy and speak in tongues and claim they had a message from God. It was demonic then, and it is demonic now.

More recently a new twist has been added. Prophecy is no longer a random thing at assemblies of the alleged believers. It is the special "ministry" that some very special characters claim. They often have to assert themselves in some spectacular way, in the hope that some great guru like Kenneth Copeland or Paul Crouch will notice them and feature their great prophecy to the masses. That is then good for a book and many speaking occasions-- the cash starts to flow. This is the case with David Wilkerson who really gave the prophecy business a special rank and authority not previously seen.

Now, hundreds of Charismatic preachers are declaring themselves to be prophets, and the new fad is to be an Apostle. Apostles are now running out the cracks of the cracked church houses all over the world. They compete to give orders and commands to saints. They threaten terrible fates to those who refuse to submit to their demands. And, they, of course, give prophecies and rulings like wee popelettes to the silly fools who are stupid enough to believe they are ministers of God.

I have been haunted, for a number of years, by a self-proclaimed prophet from Orlando, Florida-- Prophet Jim. He sends email about once a year to let me know he is still thinking of me. He made a couple of attempts at prophesying disaster if I did not join him and jump into the River of Renewal with him. I think he recently promoted himself to full apostleship also. It seems like these heretics are like a bad penny that keeps coming around over and over.

Prophecy and Divination are the hallmarks of these Prophets and Apostles of Satan-- Angels of light-- Cold demonic light.

 

PROPHECY AND DIVINATION
AT THE CHURCH HOUSE

By Paul Trigg


Prologue

http://www.discernment.org/prophetic/prophet.htm
"The early church, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Orthodox Protestant Church have never acknowledged anyone since the close of the canon and the death of the apostle John as being a true prophet or prophetess.

Montanus was probably the earliest person to try to resurrect the prophetic office in the Church, he was proven a false prophet and he and his followers were condemned as heretics by the early Church fathers."

In many Churches today, the prophetic and divining the future through such means plays a part in decisions people make in their lives and as a congregation. Just where this inspiration comes from is not as clear as it first seems.

Divination

"Divination is the attempt to foretell the future or discover occult knowledge by interpreting omens or by using paranormal or supernatural powers. The list of items that have been used in divination is extraordinary. Below are listed just a few. Many end in 'mancy', from the ancient Greek manteia (divination), or 'scopy', from the Greek skopein (to look into, to behold)."

-- aeluromancy (dropping wheatcakes in water and interpreting the result)
-- aeromancy (divination by examining what the air does to certain things)
-- alectoromancy or alectryomancy (divination by a cock: grains of wheat are placed on letters and the cock "spells" the message by selecting grains)
-- alphitomancy (dropping barleycakes in water and interpreting the result)
-- anthropomancy (divination by interpreting the organs of newly sacrificed humans)
-- astragalomancy or astragyromancy (using knucklebones marked with letters of the alphabet)
-- astrology
-- axinomancy (divination by the hatchet: interpreting the quiver when whacked into a table)
-- belomancy (divination by arrows)
-- bronchiomancy (divination by studying the lungs of sacrificed white llamas)
-- capnomancy (divination by the smoke of an altar or sacrificial incense)
-- cartomancy
-- catoptromancy or crystallomancy (using mirrors or lenses)
-- cephalomancy (divination by a donkey's head)
-- chiromancy (palmistry)
-- cleidomancy (divination by interpreting the movements of a key suspended by a thread from the nail of the third finger on a young virgin's hand while one of the Psalms was recited)
-- coscinomancy (divination by a balanced sieve)
-- cromniomancy (divination by onions)
-- cutting the Koran (a Koran with numbers in the margins is flopped open, and the numbers in the margin are used to divine the future)
-- dactylomancy (divination by means of rings put on the fingernails or the number of whorls and loops on the fingers)
-- daphnomancy (divination using the laurel branch: how did it crackle when burned?)
-- dowsing
-- extispicy (divination by examining entrails)
-- fractomancy (interpreting the structures of fractal geometric patterns)
-- geomancy
-- gyromancy (divination by walking around a circle of letters until dizzy and one falls down on the letters or in the direction to take)
-- haruspicy (inspecting the entrails of slaughtered animals)
-- hydromancy (divination by examining what certain things do in water or when taken out of water, such as coffee grounds or tea leaves); hydatoscopy (if rainwater is used);
-- pegomancy (if spring-water is used)
-- hepatoscopy or hepatomancy (divination by examining the liver of sacrificed animals)
-- kephalonomancy (burning carbon on the head of an ass while reciting the names of suspected criminals; if you're guilty, a crackling sound will be heard when your name is spoken)
-- lampadomancy (interpreting the movements of the flame of a lamp)
-- libanomancy (interpreting the smoke of incense)
-- lithomancy (divination using precious stones)
-- lecanomancy (dropping precious stones into water and listening for whistles)
-- margaritomancy (divination by the pearl: if it jumps in the pot when a person is named, then he is the thief!)
-- metoposcopy (interpreting frontal wrinkles)
-- molybdomancy (divination by melted lead: interpreting its noises and hisses when dropped into water)
-- myrmomancy (divination by watching ants eating)
-- necromancy (communicating with spirits of the dead to predict the future)
-- oinomancy (divination by wine)
-- omphalomancy (interpretation of the belly button)
-- oneiromancy (interpretation of dreams)
-- onychomancy (interpreting the reflection of sun rays off fingernails)
-- ornithomancy or orniscopy (interpreting the flights of birds)
-- ovomancy or oomancy or ooscopy (breaking eggs into a container of water and interpreting the shape of the egg white)
-- papyromancy (divination by folding paper)
-- pyromancy or pyroscopy (divination by fire)
-- rhabdomancy (using the divining rod or magic wand)
-- rhapsodmancy (divination by a line in a sacred book that strikes the eye when the book is opened after the diviner prays, meditates or invokes the help of spirits)
-- scapulamancy
-- scrying
-- sideromancy (interpreting straws thrown on a red-hot iron)
-- skatharomancy (interpreting the tracks of a beetle crawling over the grave of a murder victim)
-- splanchnomancy (reading cut sections of a goat liver)
-- stichomancy
-- tasseography (reading tea leaves)
-- tiromancy (interpreting the holes or mold in cheese)
-- urim v'tumim (reading sacred stones attached to the breastplate of the high priest in ancient Judaism)
-- uromancy (divination by reading bubbles made by urinating in a pot)

http://skepdic.com/divinati.html

The role of divination and the prophetic within the Church

Divination is a method of gaining knowledge from the Spiritual World, or determining a path to travel through chance or spiritual influence. The use of divination within the Church falls into various realms.

 

Divining using dreams and visions.

A person has a dream or while in a trance (like Peter in the New Testament) has a vision. http://www.psywww.com/asc/dreamfaq/node7.html

Dreams can be the result of subconscious memories, ideas, thoughts, worries etc and are one way that the mind makes sense of things. In yoga, gurus have been know to visit people in their dreams. Out of body experiences can be had while dreaming. In fact dreams and what they mean are studied today and can often provide information about what the person is thinking. Dreams are used in Churches at times as a method of Prophecy.

Visions also play a part in Divining the future, a person is sat listening to music or worshipping and they have a picture of something. Or are meditating and praying and have a picture much like Paul in the Bible.

 

 

Divining using Prayer.

It is broadly supposed that if you pray to God and are seeking Him in prayer over issues, that feelings, voices, thoughts you have are from God. This is something that supposed when praying to saints or to Mary also. It is interesting to note that the Bible does not teach us to pray to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit, yet the practice is widespread and incorporated into worship songs also. Many Christians have a desire to know the future and the way people pray can reflect this. Prayer then becomes a tool used to divine the future. Decisions are often made through conditional prayers stating 'If you will do this God, then I will do this' in an attempt to manipulate God into changing the future or circumstances for them.

 

Divining using the Bible.

The Bible opens out at a certain page and we read a verse. "It's a word from the Lord for today!" A pastor feels that something should be taught to the people, and he feels he is right on an issue, so he finds a scripture to support his point. Our spirit is stirred when we read something, or look to the Bible for what the future holds, in Revelation. We go and dig a cellar and fill it with tinned food.

We hear a voice talking when we are reading and know that certain things will happen or that God is telling us to do something.

 

Divination through thought and feelings.

Thought and meditation is one method in which prophecy takes place. A concept or thought comes to mind when a person or Preacher is speaking and when fully complete, a prophecy is born. This can be within the context of meditating on scripture or events, things said and experienced etc. Alternatively a prophecy can take the form of a 'feeling' about something or a 'premonition'

 

Divining Using other Means

In many cultures and religions there is a mixing of culture and religion. Voodoo mixes Christian and the occult to discern the future and influence the spiritual world. Divination can take on more sinister forms including sacrifice and omens. As I am focussing primarily on the Church, I will not go into these aspect but to mention there are numerous methods of divination. There is a close link in the role of the Prophet in the Church and the Witch Doctor in the occult. Both claim to divine information regarding the present and the future.

 

Defining Divination within the Spiritual Context.

As we can see by the above list, there are seemingly endless ways in which divination can take place. So what is involved, well in a nutshell, the spiritual world. It does not really matter the method, although it looks like the spiritual world does look to particular methods defined by man.

Some of these methods are used by illusionists to con the gullible, but the bible speaks of numerous divined methods used either by God or by the demonic. Examples of God using divination to show His will include the use of a sheepskin and dew, the use of dice to determine God's will in the new testament, the interpretation of dreams by Joseph and Daniel and Paul. The use of divination by the demonic include contacting the dead by the witch at the request of Saul, the prophets of Ball and those mentioned in the Law books of the Old Testament.

So trying to divine the future through contacting spiritual forces is prone to complications. Firstly, knowing that you have divined knowledge from the correct source requires discernment within the biblical context. Without discernment there is no telling from which source the inspiration came. As I suggested previously the method in contacting the supernatural is most likely not crucial, it is the desire and even the ability of a person to contact the spiritual world which will determine how successful they are. So if a person is able to contact the demonic spiritual world, either by practice or by lineage or other methods, they can use any method to get the required result.

If they are deceived and not resting on the Holy Spirit or not Christian at all, or even mistake the demonic for the Holy Spirit or any other suggested reason, there is the possibility that the knowledge they gain is NOT from God at all. This is one reason why the bible requires that discernment be used within the context of the Prophetic. As prophecy is discerning the future, divination is the method used to do this and the source. Divining such knowledge and giving voice to it is Prophecy.

Divination within the context of the Church can take the form of prayer, scripture, pictures, thoughts, feelings etc. True prophecy is gaining knowledge about the future which is going to happen, false prophecy on the other hand is gaining knowledge about the future which is likely to happen or does not happen or about the present that has happened. False prophecy is demonic and can often take the form of something likely to happen. Just because a prophecy has been fulfilled, does not mean it is from the Lord. Whereas true prophecy will always be true and is from the Holy Spirit.

The issue in regards to prophecy in Christianity today is this: Has, as the true Church over the centuries claims, the gift of the prophetic ceased, or is it alive and well.

If its role is complete in revealing the New Testament and stopped with the Apostles, then all divined prophetic knowledge, which is not from scripture, is based on the flesh or the demonic. If this is true believing otherwise despite this conclusion, means that the believer is being deceived. The role of such prophecy should be then confined to the work of the Holy Spirit through what has already been revealed in the Scriputres.

 

 

Editor: Steve Van Nattan

Paula Trigg does not take a final stand on this issue which includes the Word of God, so let us see what history and the Bible say:

 

History:

There is no prophecy in the history of the Lord's Church until about 1900 when the Pentecostal manifestations began to be seen. Automatic writing and prophecy were introduced in Scotland by Edward Irving and Robert Baxter.
More on the history of divination in prophecy in modern Charismania

We also note that the great men of God throughout the Church Age have NOT spoken in tongues and given divined prophecies. These men were fearless and often were burned at the stake. Why would they speak in tongues or have prophetic revelation and keep it secret. The notion that we may assume such rubbish is preposterous.

 

The Bible:

The following Bible verses are THE final authority, NOT the modern day prophets:

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Jeremiah 23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.
34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.
35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken?
36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.

Isaiah 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
Verse 15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

Jeremiah 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Micah 2:11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Jeremiah 23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

2 Corinthians 11:19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

That which is perfect IS come-- The Word of God. It is all around the world in a couple thousand languages. For many hundreds of years, God has not needed prophecy, divination, revelations, tongues, and other alleged Charismatic manifestations because the Bible is complete and in the hands of anyone who wants to know the mind of God on anything.

So, ALL prophecy, divination, tongues speaking, and other miraculous manifestations are ALL Satanic and driven by devils.

 

Check out this room full of sho nuff Apostles of the Apostolic Church

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LINKS:

Water witching (Dowsing)

Here is a classic Apostle factory

What is the rank progression? I don't know.

There is an Apostle in this mess somewhere

Apostolic networking?

 

 

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