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EDITOR:
Steve Van Nattan

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SIGNS AND WONDERS--
SIGNS THAT A CHARISMATIC CHURCH IS SICK

By Steve Van Nattan

 


This page is mainly content from a forum of people who are awake and watching in Bible based zeal.

The forum is not an outright attack on all Charismatic churches, but it is very revealing as people who have been marginalized by the "River of Renewal" speak of their experiences.

Over the years that I have been exposing the Charismatic and Word of Faith movements, I have received many letters from Pentecostals and Charismatics who thank me for dealing with the profane and heretical aspects of the movement. So, this article is meant to help these people discern the evil spirits manifesting in Charismania, spirits that are exalted as if they are the Holy Spirit. Indeed, it is demonic and must be marked as such.

Also, Charismatic insanity has infected many other churches, especially the mega church movement, because 95% of all American churches are dead and void of sound Bible teaching. When you run a circus, you grab any act that draws a crowd. P T Barnum, if he could return from the grave, would probably abandon the circus business and find himself a mega church to pastor. So, all Bible believers need to read here and ask themselves if this infection has shown up in their local church.

 

ANALYSIS OF CHARISMANIA FROM PEOPLE BURNED BY IT

In this first section, I want to give you the observations of Charismatic who were burned by the Word of Faith Movement and other Charismatic manifestations. Not every thought in this section is necessarily what I would approve of, but I have left their words unedited to show you that there is no excuse for hanging around the Word of Faith and Charismatic. Thousands of people have fled from it.

 

Mike opens the forum discussion:

While there are some good points to what many people see as the "flakier" side of Christianity, there are a whole pile of pitfalls that need to be watched for that can lead to spiritual abuse, false teaching, and the "elitism" of a charismatic congregation.

I would like to open up some discussion of different opinions on the matter, specifically from the charismatic perspective. Let's not turn this into a "liturgical" or "evangelical" vs. "charismatic" argument, but just your views on how good charismatic churches can go wrong.

Note: the manifesting I refer to below includes (but is not limited to) speaking in tongues, shaking, dancing uncontollably, disruptive verbal outbursts (both words and various noises), and uncontrollable physical gyrations.

Signs of a sick charismatic church (IMHO):

1. Those who "manifest" are more popular with leadership. Those who don't manifest are tagged as "not breaking down the walls" or "not entering in" and are basically ignored. As soon as they decide to start manifesting (including tongues) they are accepted as being on a higher spiritual plane.

2. Prophetic words are not screened by a mature christian with a high level of discernment and searched out with the Lord before they are spoken. Prophetic words for an individual are allowed to be spoken from the pulpit.

3. The focus is on the next collective "wave" that comes down the pipes. People with real spiritual, physical and emotional needs are ignored if there is a collective manifestation in progress. All attention is payed to those who are manifesting. The person waiting quietly, praying for someone to help is ignored.

4. The "prophets" in the group are in seen as infallible, although this will never be admitted to. If a prophetic word doesn't come to pass it is always someone else's fault (not enough faith, sin in the camp, etc.). Never, "I guess I was wrong".

5. Experience has displaced sound Biblical teaching and life application. "Soaking" becomes the preferred method for hearing from the Lord. If the vision/word given juring the soaking session can be backed up with scripture (even out of context) it is good to go with. Even if it is not backed up by scripture, the view is that it must be in there and I just can't find it. Words or visions presented by those who don't manifest are ignored.

6. Every "word" or "vision" that occurs juring a service must be from the Lord, because we covered the place with prayer before starting, which "binds" false, satanic, or things from the flesh. This is dead wrong. Satan and his crew is free to use whatever ground we offer him through false motives, lack of discernment, etc.

7. There is no real personal growth despite hours of wild manifestations and soaking sessions. In the Bible, when the Lord met with someone on a level that made them manifest SOMETHING MAJOR ALWAYS HAPPENED, either in the persons life, or the lives of those who His word was intended for.

8. It is the view of leadership that the gift of discernment is only given to those who manifest.

9. Music is the preferred, perhaps only, catalyst that can spur the Lord to speak to His people.

10. There is a disproportionate number of prayers and songs asking the Lord to "bless me", "bless us", "bless them", and very little in the way of "Bless You".

These are just a few warning signs that I know can lead to abuse or elitism. There are probably more.

From this point on I add the comments of thos responding to "Mike" who wrote the introduction to this discussion and the above 10 aspects seen in profane Charismatic churches.

11. Our group is the only one with the truth.

12. Anyone who doesn't want to enter into any of these "new" moves or manifestations of God but instead choose to rely on Scripture for their growth are seen as inferior. Only the super duper movers and shakers will move into the latest fad, like soaking, laughing, barking, casting out territorial spirits, seeing gold dust fall, standing on their head while patting their tummies, etc. (OK, I made up that last one, but it is about as ridiculous as the rest).

13) Worship must beat up into an emotional frenzy. It cannot be quiet or unemotional or it's not "working". Only emotionally charged music will bring in the move of God.

I have noticed that the more solid and stable Christians don't rely on all the emotional hype and latest manifestation like Charismatic-types do. It seems like Charismatics must have a visible "sign" to know their prayers are working, which in my book, actually requires less faith.

14. you are discouraged from doing something that is necessary for your health or well-being in favor of following their religious beliefs-for example, for a group that believes in 'faith healing', you are discouraged from taking medication or seeking treatment for a known disorder...and if you do have to take medicine or the 'healing' doesn't work, you are told it is due to your lack of faith, etc.

Or, you are encouraged to do something that is harmful to you or your health-for example, someone with a heart condition, high blood pressure, or a siezure disorder probably does not need to be dancing in the aisles or getting overly emotionally wrought in a service, but if this person sits down and/or behaves in the more conservative manner their doctor prescribed, they are looked down upon...

15. this goes along with the above somewhat, but the group or person is more concerned with whether or not you are following their beliefs than for your well-being...like a group that would tell a woman in an abusive relationship that she cannot divorce her husband or that if she does she cannot marry anyone else, or a group that would say a woman should not work outside the home even if she is the only one who *can* or it is necessary for the family...

16. Every problem that a person has is blamed on a 'demon' or 'spirit', and the person is told that their problem is the result of their own disobedience/lack of faith/lack of correct prayer, etc...but no real effort is made to help the person and no real compassion is shown...

17. Members must constantly be prepared to testify as to how great the Lord (the pastor) is. It doesn't matter if your testimonial is accurate or based on fact, as long as it makes the Lord (the pastor) look good and gives him/her credit for salvaging their life (which was worthless until the pastor redeemed it). Extra points are given for tears, screams, emotional outbursts, and even "manifestations of the spirit" (falling down, laugh/crying, shaking, etc.) if allowed.

18. One of the things I have noticed about my "full-on" charismatic friends is that they are constantly looking for the next "high." They travel to Florida, Canada, and anywhere else where there is a major "revival" several times a year to get their next "fix." For a couple, it got to the point that no local church could give them the "high" they needed so they started a house church where they could imitate the frenzied experiences they find in the revival venues.


From a forum member:

I have been doing extensive research into the different "miracles, signs and wonders" supposedly held as evidence of God's divine touch on individuals such as Benny Hinn, as well as glossalia and the Holy Spirit Batptism. For all my efforts, I cannot find even ONE documented, proven case to support the active working of miracles in the Christian community today... Please understand that I am NOT opposed to the possibility of modern day miracles because I do believe that God is God and He can do whatever he pleases, but to sum up my opinion, based on scripture, I would have to say I fall into the group that believes that the Gifts of the Spirit, to include prophecy, utterances and healings were fulfilled in the early Church and recorded within the New Testament.

One group actually recorded some glossalic speech, then went to 5 different "interpreters" of this supposed "angelic language" and asked for a translation. Every one of them gave different answers as to what the "words" conveyed...none of the interpretations having any likeness to the others. Another group conducted a 10 year research study, delving into various different countries, languages, churches and religions. Know what they found? Glassalic speech is not only used by Christian Pentacostals, but is used by various different Voodoo adherents, Indian Mystics, and Pagans of all sorts. Furthermore, the speech patterns match! What's more, within the Christian community, those who learn of the Holy Spirit Baptism within a particular Church and "recieve" it through the laying on of hands, will speak in the same style, accent and pattern as the preacher...Meaning that if one were to take a "Spirit Baptized" individual from California and compare him/her to one in Florida, they would match their church, not each other, in form; proving that the speech is learned. ...

I used to be a person that went to a chuch called New Testiment Christian Church. Their head pastor and church is in Graham, Washington, but they are spread internationally.

I got to a point where I wanted to get saved, so I spoke with the pastor. He led me, one on one, through the sinner's prayer, which I'm sure we are all familiar with. Then he started "praying in tongues" right after openning his bible to Acts, where it describes the day of pentacost, reading a short couple verses and closing his bible again. He then turned to me, laid his hands on my head and began praying that I would receive the "baptism".

To be honest, I didn't know what to do. I was totally caught off guard, and even though it was just him and me, my mind started racing, trying to think of something to say or do to get the pressure off me. I finally spoke a bit of jibberish, after trying for some time to piece something together in my head that didn't sound english. The whole thing was a little embarrasing. Well, he heard it and immediately jumped to his feet and shook my hand and said thanks and praised God for giving me this wonderful gift...

For a long time, I held onto the idea that I was filled with the Holy Ghost, as witnessed by speaking in tongues...

That was several years ago. I've long since thrown that whole belief-set out the window as well as ceasing my attendance to that church. Biggest reason has to do with seeing others "praying in togues", then listening to myself as I "uttered" this "divine language to God." What I noticed is that I repeated myself over and over again, using the same "words" or strings of "words" in different intervals. It's ridiculous. One man in our church knelt by a wall for an entire 30-minute prayer time, "praying in tonges", saying "aiyeeee, aiyeee, aiyeee, aiyeee" over and over again. When it was all done, the pastor flicked on the lights cause it was getting dark outside and the man had tears streaming down his face, like he was overcome with the joy of what had taken place. I guess the only good thing that comes out of that is the short-term "edification" he felt.....maybe....but what happens when he looks back at what he was doing and begins to question? When you begin to question, doubt creeps in, right? When doubt creeps in, you seek mentoring for the pastor, right? Then what happens? They either "set you straight" by saying you don't have faith in God or His word, they take your leadership role(if one existed) away from you, or they kick you down the road.

I don't know if anyone has seen a site called exchristian.net, but it is filled with testimonies of people who were cast aside by their church when all they wanted was a question answered or a little guidance.


From another forum member:

Here's a point of view from a person who was spiritually abused in a Baptist church and was then started on the path to healing by an Assembly of God church. I am now back in a Baptist church.

Although some of the points that are mentioned are stuff you would only find in a Charismatic church, not all of them are. Some of the stuff, like depression being because of some sort of "sin" can be found an any church. Also, things that are said to be to magnify the Lord but are really puffing up the pastor can be found in any church.

No denomination holds any kind of monopoly on spiritual abuse, and no denomination is entirely composed of spiritually abusive churches. That said, these things that are listed, yep, they are signs of a sick church.

 

Conclusion of this section:
By Steve Van Nattan

Catherine Marshall, the wife of a Presbyterian minister, published a book long ago called "Something More." This book had much to do with the spread of Pentecostal error into main line churches. Catherine had a mushy approach to biblical truth in which she suggested that God had not given us a full load when we were born again. Her lust for more of something gave credibility to the Neo-Pentecostal (Charismatic) notion that we could go find something that God had not given us in his Word.

Ralph Wilkerson, the Melodyland Wilkerson, went further and stated that "When someone stands in the assembly and says 'thus saith the Lord,' what follows becomes the word of God and moves through the Word of God to become more authoritative than the Word of God." Melodyland was a school as well as a big show on the weekend, and the Charismatic Movement tried in that school to develop a systematic theological position. I worked for Demus Shakarian, a big money source for Charismania during the 1960s and 70s, and he was a big force in seeking to present an intellectual theological face to the movement. They succeeded and they failed. They succeeded in that they did end up with a real sho-nuff book of theology by a guy name Rea as I recall. This went missing though when the Rhema School in Florida invented the Word of Faith, name it and claim it, theology which has cursed Pentecostalism ever since.

So, if you also have second thoughts about the Bible being all sufficient for all matters of life and doctrine in YOUR life, try to explain how "something more" can be added to this:

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If the man of God can be "throughly furnished" unto all good works, why would that man of God go looking for "something more" from anyone. It is the first principle of ALL cults that they start with the truth from the Bible, but they add a necessary fiction. This makes the cult, and its leaders, essential to the follower to get the add on.

Suppose you were marooned on an island in the ocean all alone, and you had a Bible, but no other source on information about spiritual things. Do you believe that the Bible would be all you would need, or would you miss the prophetic blather and bluster of your favorite Charismatic guru? You see, it is blasphemy to claim that the Bible is not enough-- that "something more" is needed. That is, if the above Bible text is to be taken literally.

 

 

NOW, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ON
MANIFESTATIONS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

The following video series will help you see from the Bible where the obvious violations are between Word of Faith and Charismatic teaching on one side and the Bible on the other:

Justin Peters, does an exceptional work of exposure and discernment of spirits in this series. This was done in 2011 and is the most balanced and well presented biblical examination of the Word of Faith movement which I have seen.

SESSION ONE

SESSION TWO

SESSION THREE

 

 

CONCLUSION:

There is a huge body of teaching and evidence extant in books and on the web that makes it very clear that the Charismatic Movement, the Word of Faith teaching, and the Manifest Sons of God hirelings are possessed of devils. I am under orders from God to mark these creeps for what they are:

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I have NO reason to hold back. Jesus was very explicit in speaking TO the Pharisees and ABOUT the Pharisees in order to warn his followers and disciples not to be deceived by spiritual leaders who are "of your father the devil." Why should I be the least bit diplomatic about modern heretics and hirelings?

So, if you read the above, watched the videos, and if you follow the links below, you will not be able to stand before God and find an excuse for your lust for sensational manifestations and slop hog teaching which you have gleaned from Charismatic leaders. If you perpetuated that teaching, and if you brought others into the movement to be poisoned by it, you are not born again as you imagine-- you are a servant of Satan.

You cannot be an evangelist for the lies of our adversary the devil and, and the same times, be on your way to heaven where God is at this moment planning the destiny of your gurus in the sides of the pit, HELL. You will go right along with your guru.

If you have had second thoughts, if you have been burned by the false teachers, I would invite you to examine yourself to see if you really are in the faith once delivered to us by Jesus Christ.

GO HERE

If you conclude that you are indeed born again, then your second thoughts are very likely the Holy Spirit in you crying out against these wicked counterfeits in which you have indulged. The only Word of Faith that Jesus wants to come out of your mouth is the following:

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

If you ever want to hear, "Blessed art thou" from Jesus one day when you arrive before his throne, then you will HAVE TO be content to speak and accept from other believers and preachers the only Word of Faith Jesus will accept-- THOU ARE THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. If you continue to claim and name, blab and grab, all sorts of goodies in your own words, you will go to hell, even if you say the biblical Word of Faith. You are mixing the holy and the profane, and GOD HATES THAT.

 

VIDEOS:

Here is a Roman Catholic hype promo video to appeal to YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU.
This is the devilish way all Charismatic leaders appeal to their followers-- YOU.....
they do not exalt Jesus Christ.


When the Catholic Whore of Rome can gather up the Charismatic Movement and adapt it to their plan to conquer the world there is something dreadfully wrong with the Charismatic Movement. Imagine the Roman Catholic Whore Church taking the Westminster Catechism or the Doctrine of Fundamental Baptists. Impossible, right? Well, if you are in the Charismatic Movement it should make you tremble to realize that those who blaspheme God with their mongrel vile doctrines also want your religion. There is a marriage going on between two mighty forces of Satan, and YOU ARE IN IT if you run to the Word of Faith and Charismatic mob.

 

HOW BAD DOES IT GET?

Creflo Dollar has come to this--
DOLLAR CHARGED WITH BEATING HIS DAUGHTER

 

AN AIR HEAD SPEAKS ON TONGUES FOR YOUTUBE
AND GIVES AN ALLEGED INTERPRETATION


God said a lot less than the air head, right? And, she did not tell us when the interpretation stopped and her blather and bluster started. This is blasphemous display of an egomaniac girl. I also head words in her alleged tongues speaking that I heard in a Rodney Howard Browne tongues speaking spiel. It seems to me that a Satanic language is going around the Charismatic movement.

 

HOAX OF TONGUES SPEAKING AND INTERPRETATION

The Holy Spirit seemed to have a harder time getting out the English interpretation of the tongues language. Why is this? I suspect the interpreter was full of himself, not the Holy Spirit. I also notice that when Hinn, RH Browne, and other Grigoes speak in tongues, they sound like they use a mixture of Spanish and some African language. This tongues speaker sounded Slavic. Why is it that this tongues language is said to be heavenly, but it sounds a lot like some language the speaker has heard a log of?

 

 

LINKS:

OUR ARTICLE ON THE GIFT OF DISCERNMENT

MANY ARTICLES ARE LISTED AT THIS MENU OF OUR SECTION OF THE JOURNAL EXAMINING THE CHAOS AND BLASPHEMIES OF THE CHARISMATIC AND WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT. WE ALSO DISCUSS THE JOURNEY INTO OCCULT HINDU MANIFESTATIONS.

THE GIFT OF DISCERNMENT
This article makes it clear that discerning of spirits IS essential to you Christian life.

 

CONTACT STEVE FOR HELP:

E-mail address found here

Phone: 512 673-3309

 

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